GOW maps no longer free thanks to Wanker$oft.

Since 6940 Days

http://forums.gametrailers.com/showthread.php?t=86...

What we have here is simply a difference of opinion on how to maximize the return on Gears of War - something both Epic and Microsoft want to do. While we create products like Gears because we love games, and we have a passion for making them, at the end of the day this is a business for both companies and how we earn our living.

Epic thinks the way to maximize the return on Gears of War is to give the maps away for free and Microsoft thinks the way to maximize the return on Gears of War is to sell the maps. So what we’ve agreed to do is to put these maps on sale at a reasonable price then make them free a few months later. They did this with the original Halo2 map pack and it was a huge success. Lots of people bought the maps and lots of people downloaded them when they became free. That’s what is going to happen and it seems like a fair compromise for both companies and a win-win for Gears players.

Why does Epic not have control over this even though we created this content on our own time and our own dime? Quite frankly Xbox Live Marketplace isn’t our store. It’s Microsoft’s store. Like any retailer they have the right to figure out what goes on the shelves of their store and what price they sell it at. They spend the money to operate the store and deliver the content. They’ve also spent billions of dollars to create and build Xbox and subsidize it’s the price so you can afford it and we can make games for it. As our publisher, they also invested tens of millions of dollars marketing Gears of War, and have done an awesome job for us, so they have a right to a good return on that investment.

As Tim Sweeney and I said in the podcast, we want the download economy to work – it is something the industry needs, something we hope to use in the future, something that will help bring more variety to end-users and ultimately could help bring prices down for end-users. If we had to put this map pack on a disc and sell it in retail it would be more expensive to end-users and maybe we wouldn't have done it because of all the extra work and cost involved.

In the mean time we are planning to bring out an awesome new Gears of War multi-player gametype called Annex that works will all of the existing multi-player maps and the new pack we're talking about here. The 1UP guys who got to play it a few weeks ago left the office raving about how it could be our best Gears gametype yet and I think a lot of people will enjoy it. Best of all, it is totally FREE and will come in the new Gears update that we expect to see released this week.

Im not paying for something which probably would have been free in the first place if it wasn't rushed out the door.

In reply to

http://forums.gametrailers.com/showthread.php?t=86109

[b]What we have here is simply a difference of opinion on how to maximize the return on Gears of War - something both Epic and Microsoft want to do. While we create products like Gears because we love games, and we have a passion for making them, at the end of the day this is a business for both companies and how we earn our living.

Epic thinks the way to maximize the return on Gears of War is to give the maps away for free and Microsoft thinks the way to maximize the return on Gears of War is to sell the maps. So what we’ve agreed to do is to put these maps on sale at a reasonable price then make them free a few months later.[/b] They did this with the original Halo2 map pack and it was a huge success. Lots of people bought the maps and lots of people downloaded them when they became free. That’s what is going to happen and it seems like a fair compromise for both companies and a win-win for Gears players.
[b]
Why does Epic not have control over this even though we created this content on our own time and our own dime? Quite frankly Xbox Live Marketplace isn’t our store. [/b]It’s Microsoft’s store. Like any retailer they have the right to figure out what goes on the shelves of their store and what price they sell it at. They spend the money to operate the store and deliver the content. They’ve also spent billions of dollars to create and build Xbox and subsidize it’s the price so you can afford it and we can make games for it. As our publisher, they also invested tens of millions of dollars marketing Gears of War, and have done an awesome job for us, so they have a right to a good return on that investment.

As Tim Sweeney and I said in the podcast, we want the download economy to work – it is something the industry needs, something we hope to use in the future, something that will help bring more variety to end-users and ultimately could help bring prices down for end-users. If we had to put this map pack on a disc and sell it in retail it would be more expensive to end-users and maybe we wouldn't have done it because of all the extra work and cost involved.

In the mean time we are planning to bring out an awesome new Gears of War multi-player gametype called Annex that works will all of the existing multi-player maps and the new pack we're talking about here. The 1UP guys who got to play it a few weeks ago left the office raving about how it could be our best Gears gametype yet and I think a lot of people will enjoy it. Best of all, it is totally FREE and will come in the new Gears update that we expect to see released this week.

Im not paying for something which probably would have been free in the first place if it wasn't rushed out the door.

THIS IS SPARTA!

Shawnzee

Since 7024 Days

charge for first few months, get them free later.

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Yeah, im a fanboy, dont like it?

t('-'t) U
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kenshin2418

Since 6988 Days

Well I was pissed before, but now that I know they doing the Halo 2 move, it's not that bad. I'll just wait till they're free, then own them up. I guess everybody wins this way. Still, that's some shitty moves by MS..

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FFXIII

Optimusv2

Since 6904 Days

Like Epic said Microsoft published the game and spent millions of dollars marketing it and Xbox Live Marketplace is Microsoft's store.

In reply to

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

Phaethon360

Since 6858 Days

Do you know how much they could charge for a Mass Effect release date? I bet MS will be the first company to take bribes for actual release dates. You just wait a watch.

In reply to

Jim Rome: "Nobody owns anybody like Florida owns OSU."

alimokrane

Since 6942 Days

YEah ... Microsoft really cares about us doesnt it ...... Yo woudl think that with over 4 million copies of the game sold they would let us have this as well for free but NOoooo!
They can keep it for all I care. Yes, Im cheap.

In reply to

CARB

Since 6565 Days

Posted by alimokrane

YEah ... Microsoft really cares about us doesnt it ...... Yo woudl think that with over 4 million copies of the game sold they would let us have this as well for free but NOoooo!
They can keep it for all I care. Yes, Im cheap.

yea thats just like going to a restaurant once a month and having the most expensive meal, then a few months later walking in and saying to the owner " ive eaten here once a month every month, i want all my meals for free from now on", the owner would kick you out of the door.

In reply to

alimokrane

Since 6942 Days

Posted by CARB

yea thats just like going to a restaurant once a month and having the most expensive meal, then a few months later walking in and saying to the owner " ive eaten here once a month every month, i want all my meals for free from now on", the owner would kick you out of the door.

Hmm. your analogy doesnt make sense at all. I had the first meal for free and obviously I would refuse to pay for the next because what attracted me first to the meal was it being free :D
Anyway, this is they way I feel about it.

In reply to

CARB

Since 6565 Days

Posted by alimokrane

Hmm. your analogy doesnt make sense at all. I had the first meal for free and obviously I would refuse to pay for the next because what attracted me first to the meal was it being free :D
Anyway, this is they way I feel about it.

maybe kinda the wrong way i put it, ive just got up ! heads still fuzzy ,

In reply to

ramses01

Since 6538 Days

The responses here, at GAF, and everywhere always amuse the shit out of me. It never ceases to amaze me how friggin clueless internet fanboys are. This is a simple straightforward business decision. In fact, it is hugely generous to fans. But what do fanboys do? They bitch and moan about lack of free content. They really should grow up and realize that there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Once they get over that, life will be much more relaxing.

In reply to

RC_Master

Since 6914 Days

Seems a lot of angst over nothing.

1. People have already got 2 free multiplayer maps extra
2. People are getting an extra gametype free
3. They are quite reasonbly priced
4. They are going to be free.

And as already stated, it IS M$ and they have a right to charge for stuff, on their marketplace, for the game that they spent a lot of money on.

I mean, same thing happened with halo 2. Except there were a lot more maps involved.

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Ignorance is the true enemy of all things.

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GriftGFX

Since 7012 Days

Total BS and I'm amazed that people are defending it. MS spent millions on GOW? This game has been stated as having a lower cost of development than many of last generations titles -- and it's already 10 more at retail. It's also sold over 4 million copies -- they are already making money on Gears.

Epic is used to providing their customers with goodies to reward their loyalty and their purchase -- MS is much more interested in milking their fanbase for all they can than rewarding them in any way. This is not the first time this has happened and it won't be the last. MS wants to see an end to free content period.

The food service analogy is ridiculous. Firstly -- if you were used to being rewarded by a business and they told you they had to cut you off because their landlord was greedy -- you probably wouldn't be too pleased. Secondly -- you can't create one cheeseburger and then digitally distribute copies for next to nothing.

The only good news here is that they will eventually be free -- which means that the mp userbase won't be segmented for good...just for a short time.

Kudos to Epic for making this a public issue.

In reply to

Total BS and I'm amazed that people are defending it.   MS spent millions on GOW?  This game has been stated as having a lower cost of development than many of last generations titles -- and it's already 10 more at retail.  It's also sold over 4 million copies -- they are already making money on Gears.

Epic is used to providing their customers with goodies to reward their loyalty and their purchase  -- MS is much more interested in milking their fanbase for all they can than rewarding them in any way.  This is not the first time this has happened and it won't be the last.  MS wants to see an end to free content period.

The food service analogy is ridiculous.  Firstly -- if you were used to being rewarded by a business and they told you they had to cut you off because their landlord was greedy -- you probably wouldn't be too pleased.  Secondly -- you can't create one cheeseburger and then digitally distribute copies for next to nothing.

The only good news here is that they will eventually be free -- which means that the mp userbase won't be segmented for good...just for a short time.

Kudos to Epic for making this a public issue.

Myro

Since 6940 Days

Posted by ramses01

In fact, it is hugely generous to fans.

I'm so confused by this.

In reply to

THIS IS SPARTA!

ramses01

Since 6538 Days

Posted by Myro

I'm so confused by this.

What is there to be confused by?

MS is going to let people DL it for free after a few months. That is very generous, and smart, on their part. They offered a great win/win solution for everyone. This is perfect customer segmentation. Those that value the maps buy them for a fair price. Those that don't or can't pay eventually get a treat from MS. Anyone who bitches about it, really doesn't understand business very well. This is a fantastic solution to the issue, one that obviously worked well with Halo 2. MS optimizes their revenue stream and gives fans that can't afford the content something for free later.

In reply to

sullytao

Since 6561 Days

pay to get them a few months early or wait and get them free... i can live with that.

In reply to

alimokrane

Since 6942 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

Total BS and I'm amazed that people are defending it. MS spent millions on GOW? This game has been stated as having a lower cost of development than many of last generations titles -- and it's already 10 more at retail. It's also sold over 4 million copies -- they are already making money on Gears.

Epic is used to providing their customers with goodies to reward their loyalty and their purchase -- MS is much more interested in milking their fanbase for all they can than rewarding them in any way. This is not the first time this has happened and it won't be the last. MS wants to see an end to free content period.

The food service analogy is ridiculous. Firstly -- if you were used to being rewarded by a business and they told you they had to cut you off because their landlord was greedy -- you probably wouldn't be too pleased. Secondly -- you can't create one cheeseburger and then digitally distribute copies for next to nothing.

The only good news here is that they will eventually be free -- which means that the mp userbase won't be segmented for good...just for a short time.

Kudos to Epic for making this a public issue.

THANK YOU! somebody who talks sense in this thread at last!

Posted by ramses01

The responses here, at GAF, and everywhere always amuse the shit out of me. It never ceases to amaze me how friggin clueless internet fanboys are. This is a simple straightforward business decision. In fact, it is hugely generous to fans. But what do fanboys do? They bitch and moan about lack of free content. They really should grow up and realize that there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Once they get over that, life will be much more relaxing.

Your fanboy argument is really uncalled for in this case. last time I checked, fanboys rush out to buy things no matter what and this quality, I assure you (not that I care), doesnt belong in my dictionary.

Epic has always been a free content provider to their communities and it's the reason behind the success of many of their franchises.

In reply to

[quote=GriftGFX]Total BS and I'm amazed that people are defending it.   MS spent millions on GOW?  This game has been stated as having a lower cost of development than many of last generations titles -- and it's already 10 more at retail.  It's also sold over 4 million copies -- they are already making money on Gears.

Epic is used to providing their customers with goodies to reward their loyalty and their purchase  -- MS is much more interested in milking their fanbase for all they can than rewarding them in any way.  This is not the first time this has happened and it won't be the last.  MS wants to see an end to free content period.

The food service analogy is ridiculous.  Firstly -- if you were used to being rewarded by a business and they told you they had to cut you off because their landlord was greedy -- you probably wouldn't be too pleased.  Secondly -- you can't create one cheeseburger and then digitally distribute copies for next to nothing.

The only good news here is that they will eventually be free -- which means that the mp userbase won't be segmented for good...just for a short time.

Kudos to Epic for making this a public issue.[/quote]

THANK YOU! somebody who talks sense in this thread at last!

[quote=ramses01]The responses here, at GAF, and everywhere always amuse the shit out of me.  It never ceases to amaze me how friggin clueless internet fanboys are.  This is a simple straightforward business decision.  In fact, it is hugely generous to fans.  But what do fanboys do?  They bitch and moan about lack of free content.  They really should grow up and realize that there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.  Once they get over that, life will be much more relaxing.[/quote]

Your fanboy argument is really uncalled for in this case. last time I checked, fanboys rush out to buy things no matter what and this quality, I assure you (not that I care), doesnt belong in my dictionary.

Epic has always been a free content provider to their communities and it's the reason behind the success of many of their franchises.

Inflatable

Since 7650 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

Kudos to Epic for making this a public issue.

Well, tbh, anyone knowing MS a little knew this was going on.. People believing MS doesn't have any influence on the pricing of stuff on their marketplace are just very naive..

I was a bit plesantly surprised Epic was able to release the 1st small mappack for free (although they had to attach a sponsor), but now it's clear they also cannot escape the MS money marketplace bandwagon.. Making the maps free after a few months is BS, they know very well the real fans will all buy the maps.. Infact they are screwing their real fans, taking advantage of the people that are hardcore fans of the game and cannot wait a few months to play the new maps.. People that can wait are not the hardcore fans, people that would never play the maps if they didn't become free.. So instead of rewarding their fanbase, they are screwing them.. For the simple reason, greed!

I really like the Xbox 360, but the way MS remains a company that's out for total domination and control on any market they get involved in so they can start charging is just sickening.. They see the gameconsolemarket as a nice new milkingcow for cash, letting loose all their fancy buisinessmodels on it without letting any competion get involved that could undermine they plans (like developers wanting to give away stuff for free, it undermines their buisinessmodel because users will start to wonder why some things are free and some are not, so for MS it's better if it's all paid so people get used to it).. You want to give free content to your fans? Naha, not on our system!!

Good thing MS doesn't totally control the PC market yet.. Although they probably will give it a go now with Windows Live and Games for Windows etc.. Slowly making PC gamers get used to paid service and content aswell.. God, I hope they fail..

In reply to

[quote=GriftGFX]Kudos to Epic for making this a public issue.[/quote]
Well, tbh, anyone knowing MS a little knew this was going on.. People believing MS doesn't have any influence on the pricing of stuff on their marketplace are just very naive..

I was a bit plesantly surprised Epic was able to release the 1st small mappack for free (although they had to attach a sponsor), but now it's clear they also cannot escape the MS money marketplace bandwagon.. Making the maps free after a few months is BS, they know very well the real fans will all buy the maps.. Infact they are screwing their real fans, taking advantage of the people that are hardcore fans of the game and cannot wait a few months to play the new maps.. People that can wait are not the hardcore fans, people that would never play the maps if they didn't become free.. So instead of rewarding their fanbase, they are screwing them.. For the simple reason, greed!

I really like the Xbox 360, but the way MS remains a company that's out for total domination and control on any market they get involved in so they can start charging is just sickening.. They see the gameconsolemarket as a nice new milkingcow for cash, letting loose all their fancy buisinessmodels on it without letting any competion get involved that could undermine they plans (like developers wanting to give away stuff for free, it undermines their buisinessmodel because users will start to wonder why some things are free and some are not, so for MS it's better if it's all paid so people get used to it).. You want to give free content to your fans? Naha, not on our system!!

Good thing MS doesn't totally control the PC market yet.. Although they probably will give it a go now with Windows Live and Games for Windows etc.. Slowly making PC gamers get used to paid service and content aswell.. God, I hope they fail..

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Phaethon360

Since 6858 Days

Well, they seem to be a little more money grubbing as of late, not that I'm surprised. Overall they're doing a great job handling the Xbox 360. If they can release more games and less accessories/SKUs, this may become the next PS2.

As far as charging gamers for DLC, well, I think it should be up to the developers, but if Microsoft publishes the game then they should have fair say. But it does beg to question just how much they want to satisfy and keep gamers playing and how much they want to milk us. They're going to find new ways to charge us. And the way they go about it, we're going to be convinced that they have the right to. Darn subliminal imagery

In reply to

Jim Rome: "Nobody owns anybody like Florida owns OSU."

GriftGFX

Since 7012 Days

Yeah the first map pack wasn't really free -- the discovery channel paid for it. Regardless, I hardly see this as "very generous" when the developer (you know.. the ones doing the work and who provided MS with their first killer app for 360) wants them to be free. Not only do they want them to be free but they've got a history of providing free content.

This is unfortunately happening more than we even hear about. We hav e heard of simular disputes on XBLA -- Worms and GeoWars come to mind. It's becomming pretty clear that if it weren't for the community backlash and more importantly Epic's firm stance on the issue we wouldn't be getting free content at all.

The company that nickles and dimes its consumers for "gamer pics" and themes is being very generous? Get real.

The thing that concerns me most is that they don't seem to care about splitting up the userbase -- which is far from wise -- but atleast this model only makes that a temp. problem.

Good thing they're not publishing UT.. and this should give us an indication of what to expect from Halo 3 -- don't expect your 130 dollar purchase to be rewarded outside of the contents of the box...

Could be worse.. just look at the lost planet content. 5 bucks for *two* maps? Bleh.

That's all a bit too much typing on my Treo..

In reply to

Yeah the first map pack wasn't really free -- the discovery channel paid for it.  Regardless, I hardly see this as "very generous" when the developer (you know.. the ones doing the work and who provided MS with their first killer app for 360) wants them to be free.  Not only do they want them to be free but they've got a history of providing free content.

This is unfortunately happening more than we even hear about.  We hav e heard of simular disputes on XBLA -- Worms and GeoWars come to mind.  It's becomming pretty clear that if it weren't for the community backlash and more importantly Epic's firm stance on the issue we wouldn't be getting free content at all.

The company that nickles and dimes its consumers for "gamer pics" and themes is being very generous?  Get real.

The thing that concerns me most is that they don't seem to care about splitting up the userbase -- which is far from wise -- but atleast this model only makes that a temp. problem.

Good thing they're not publishing UT.. and this should give us an indication of what to expect from Halo 3  -- don't expect your 130 dollar purchase to be rewarded outside of the contents of the box...

Could be worse.. just look at the lost planet content.  5 bucks for *two* maps?  Bleh.

That's all a bit too much typing on my Treo..

Salarien

Since 6677 Days

Update comes Today !!!
www.majornelson.com

In reply to

GriftGFX

Since 7012 Days

So the patch has been confirmed for release today (again)? If so.. it's nice to have some *good* gears news this week.

Also, I'm glad i brought my 360 along with me...

In reply to

Optimusv2

Since 6904 Days

It probably wouldn' t have sold the 4 million copies it did if it wasn't marketed to hell and back as THE Xbox 360 title.

Did it need to be under the spotlight at Zerohour? Did it need to be the opener for Microsoft's E3 2006 press conference. I understand where people are coming from and I want free stuff just like anyone else, but I think Microsoft's investment is being overlooked. Its possible the marketing it received costed more than the game itself.

In reply to

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

GriftGFX

Since 7012 Days

No investment is being overlooked (except the consumers). Epic provides content and they believe that it will actually lead to higher profits. MS recouped advertising losses by SELLING 4 MILLION COPIES OF THE GAME -- for 60 dollars no less -- and rewarding the customers loyalty leads to.. well.. customer loyalty.

You guys can defend it as a sound business decision all day but it's actually a pretty short sighted one.. and Epic knows this. Do you guys actually think that Epic doesn't know what they're doing or how to stay in touch with a fanbase that loves them? Mark Rein isn't stupid -- and Epic knows their business.

I don't really care about the money as much as the fact that MS does not care about fracturing an online user base at all.

Implying that this is the only viable solution is just madness.. but at least we'll eventually see the severed part of the community reconnected eventually. Really though -- giving them away for free after the sales drop off shouldn't be seen as much of a gift by anyone.

MS gives us gifts in the form of free gamerpics that are actually just advertisements for movies etc.

And yes, btw, Gears did need to be in the spotlight. Nothing else released in Nov. 06 (a crucial time for MS) could have been that killer app -- Gears is not so big and important because of advertising dollars -- it's big and important because it's a game that will actually move that many copies.. you can't just throw millions into advertising *anything* and expect it to sell. Gears was the big exclusive of 2006 and that's mostly thanks to the hard work from the boys @ Epic and not an advertising budget.

Gears is what it is because it's Gears of War -- not because of the publisher. Lets not give Bungie proper credit for Halo either -- it's only big because of TV spots.

In reply to

No investment is being overlooked (except the consumers).  Epic provides content and they believe that it will actually lead to higher profits.  MS recouped advertising losses by SELLING 4 MILLION COPIES OF THE GAME -- for 60 dollars no less -- and rewarding the customers loyalty leads to.. well.. customer loyalty.

You guys can defend it as a sound business decision all day but it's actually a pretty short sighted one.. and Epic knows this.  Do you guys actually think that Epic doesn't know what they're doing or how to stay in touch with a fanbase that loves them?  Mark Rein isn't stupid  -- and Epic knows their business.

I don't really care about the money as much as the fact that MS does not care about fracturing an online user base at all.

Implying that this is the only viable solution is just madness.. but at least we'll eventually see the severed part of the community reconnected eventually.  Really though -- giving them away for free after the sales drop off shouldn't be seen as much of a gift by anyone.

MS gives us gifts in the form of free gamerpics that are actually just advertisements for movies etc.

And yes, btw, Gears did need to be in the spotlight.  Nothing else released in Nov. 06 (a crucial time for MS) could have been that killer app -- Gears is not so big and important because of advertising dollars -- it's big and important because it's a game that will actually move that many copies.. you can't just throw millions into advertising *anything* and expect it to sell.  Gears was the big exclusive of 2006 and that's mostly thanks to the hard work from the boys @ Epic and not an advertising budget.

Gears is what it is because it's Gears of War -- not because of the publisher.  Lets not give Bungie proper credit for Halo either -- it's only big because of TV spots.

alimokrane

Since 6942 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

It probably wouldn' t have sold the 4 million copies it did if it wasn't marketed to hell and back as THE Xbox 360 title.

Did it need to be under the spotlight at Zerohour? Did it need to be the opener for Microsoft's E3 2006 press conference. I understand where people are coming from and I want free stuff just like anyone else, but I think Microsoft's investment is being overlooked. Its possible the marketing it received costed more than the game itself.

Ok let's see:

The game costed $10 Million and let's assume marketing all together did cost $30 million (a rediculously big number for purpose), now you do the maths!

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