I really like Windows 8, so I'll definitely be upgrading. I love what they did to the task manager. I was initially put off by the ribbon additions to the windows explorer, but it really does help better expose a great deal of very useful features. I like the improvements that they've made to the file copying process. I really like that there is now native support for ISO files. I can still use all the same software that I've been using before. Metro actually looks really damn good, and should be even better when more impressive apps are released that take advantage of it. The Start Screen has certainly grown on me significantly. Windows 8 is seems notably faster than is the case for my pc when I'm running Windows 7, the memory management is obviously better, and while my pc is pretty beast, there are instances in which Windows 7's memory management probably catches up with it, and I haven't really noticed similar issues in Windows 8.

I like the new Internet Explorer, metro and desktop version alike. Features such as refresh and reset is really long overdue. It's still totally keyboard and mouse friendly. This idea that it's not is just plain overreaction. I know because I've actually been using it. They pretty much thought of everything that you would need. Even as you enter the start screen, the moment you begin typing anything at all, a search bar comes up. It takes no longer than how you would do it in Windows 7. The cloud integration is well done. I mean, there is a lot to like here, and for $40, it's almost certainly a steal. The improved multi-screen features are much welcome, especially since I use multi-monitors religiously, especially when programming.

Gabe honestly didn't bring anything to anyone's attention, because he didn't really say anything. Did he say the same things when Apple brought iOS like features or the app store into their OS? Just curious. I'd understand if Windows 8 sucked ass, but I've used the thing, and been using it for some time now, and all I see from people like Gabe Newell is whining without really backing it up with anything that isn't rubbish, which is sad, because I do respect the man, but I see a whole bunch of nothing in his complaints about Windows 8. I honestly think it's pretty fantastic so far. You would think Steam and none of the products they make even work on Windows 8 the way some of these folks are talking. You would think that developing for it is impossible, and that nothing they make, or that is currently being made will be compatible with windows 8.

And for a bunch of folks who are going around talking about linux this, linux that, and the beauty of the open environment, they sure seem pretty bitter that more developers will have such a major, centralized location such as the Windows App Store with which to display and sell their software to many, many more people who might otherwise never have a shot in hell of seeing, much less trying and purchasing their software, because it's really hard to grab the attention of most windows users if you don't have some kind of name going for ya, or if you lack connections to certain sites who will advertise your software for you. How Gabe or anyone could see something that offers more opportunity to more developers as a bad thing is beyond me, and quite frankly pitiful. It's no coincidence that the Itunes App Store has led to all sorts of new life for software that really had no chance in hell at the kind of success they have now. Windows, regardless of how popular it is to bash a new iteration everytime it's coming out, is a pretty big deal, and I fully expect the same to be true of the app store, and I don't expect it to take very long. But oh how the mighty have fallen. I never thought I would see the day where Gabe Newell of all people is basically bitching about Microsoft creating a place where developers will have a better chance to show off and sell their software, and where consumers can go through a nice database of software of all kinds to see what they want. I can tell you right now, there's a whole hell of a lot of software that I would never purchase or even download on my ipad if there wasn't an app store for me to go to. What reason does Gabe have to hate this? They can still conduct business exactly as they always have. So, what's the bitching about?

Anybody can see what the real motivation behind his comments are: The Windows 8 App Store is quietly -- or not so quietly -- being viewed as a major thorn in the side of Valve because it's basically very big competition for their Steam Platform. However, what I don't get is if Steam is as popular as it is -- and it's sure as hell popular -- and they are as confident in their product as they should certainly be by now with all the success it has had, why in god's name would they pull a spoiled child routine just because Microsoft are doing something pretty common sense, and that's well within their right to do, similar to what Apple has done? I mean, give me a break here. Does Gabe really think nobody can see his motivation here? He believes that if the Windows App Store gains enough popularity, it will, just as the Itunes App Store did, lead to a lot of people purchasing a lot of very cheap games, apps, and they somehow believe that this will be enough where it takes away from the piece of the pie that they get. It's as simple as that. It's about money, and I'm not going to be misled by Gabe on this one.

Anybody who seriously buys into this notion that Windows ( Windows) will somehow become some closed off, walled garden similar to what Apple basically does with their ipad, iphone, what have you, when the way that Windows has basically been for years and years now, and its level of accessibility is one of its biggest advantages and selling points over other alternatives, are seriously out of their damn minds. I don't know how else to put it. Even with a serious focus on touch and tablets, Microsoft is not going to effectively kill one of their biggest money makers on purpose. Windows 8 is still windows in every single way that Windows 7 already is, but faster with more features and improvements galore.

I also can't help but laugh at the silly notion that Linux is somehow going to become serious enough as an alternative that all these average consumers that are already more comfortable with a mac or windows, will suddenly gravitate to it just because more games go to it. It's about far more than just the games. There's a security and piece of mind that comes with Windows as well that just doesn't exist on anywhere the same level on Linux, which is why so many fewer people use it. Microsoft is suppose to just up and ignore the blatantly obvious trends and allow one of their biggest products to stagnate just to satisfy Gabe, Blizzard and OEMS? It's these same OEMs that couldn't do much of anything by themselves to properly generate interest in their Windows Tablet offerings, and then they suddenly get pissed when Microsoft actually showcases something that actually looks slightly worth it. Blame them for ever thinking that Microsoft would be banking so much on windows on tablets, and leave it entirely up to the geniuses at dell, hp.

Watch about a year or two from now, all this nonsense and overreaction over Windows 8 will all just be noise, and then whenever we start seeing Windows 9, the process starts all over again. It's funny that so many are sticking all over are talking about sticking with Win 7, but I was under the impression prior to the release of 7 that many weren't going to move to 7 in the first place, and instead stick with XP. Vista had real issues, everybody knows that, can't defend that one, but I'm just not seeing it at all with Windows 8. It looks spectacular and I can't wait. Still, different opinions are expected, so it doesn't matter :)

Gabe's words are motivated by bitterness and money, not by genuine interest in what happens to OEMS, developers and consumers. He is known for bitter statements like this, but more times than not, I actually find myself agreeing with the guy, but in this instance, I can't do that.

You will have your own opinion, but everything I said about Windows 8 is 100% true to my own experience, and the only spin here is to try to claim that Gabe Newell has absolutely no financial motivation behind his statements at all, when you and I both know better. Only Microsoft are interested in Money? Newell isn't concerned in the least about the money that they get through Steam? There's a reason that they don't really disclose the percentages. If they have, then I've missed them. Gabe is a smart guy, and who is usually always dead on when it comes to certain things, but he's way off on this one, and it's transparent as hell. He's worried about money being taken away from steam sales. Steam is biggest on Windows pcs, and now Microsoft is making a major push to establish an app store right there in the next big release of the most popular, widely used PC operating system in the world.

And, let's be serious for a moment here. Windows 8 is far more of a PC operating system than it is a tablet operating system, and you and I both know it. Go ahead, just try and tell me something that you can do on a windows 7 pc that you somehow can't do on a Windows 7 PC? There really is nothing, because I've been doing just about everything on Windows 8, just the same as I have been doing it on Windows 7. If this is the case, how is it a tablet OS?

If your response is as simple as complaining about the lack of the start button and menu, then I'm afraid that isn't nearly enough. The only fashion in which hardware partners are being alienated by Windows 8, and this much is true, is that Microsoft has chosen to release their own tablet hardware, which automatically makes every offering from their hardware partners look less appealing, and I've never denied that being the case. However, this doesn't, in anyway, affect what those hardware partners will do on the PC side of things. You and I both know that every single one of them are going to be releasing and marketing the crap out of their Windows 8 PCs, and will continue to do so for years. Do you deny that this will be the case? If so, I honestly can't see why. What hardware can I run on a windows 7 pc that I somehow can't run on a windows 8 pc? How about the software? Come on, man, these criticisms are not even remotely attempting to be fair.

Not only have I used Windows 8, I've been using it consistently now since the developer preview, all the way up to the release preview. It is not awful in the least, but, again, it's your opinion, and I respect your right to that opinion. I just have a very different one is all.

It's almost like Microsoft is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. Microsoft are notorious for half assing it when they are trying to pursue or expand into certain markets, and pretty much send whatever new product they are pushing out there to die, because they don't commit themselves enough to the vision of what it is they are trying to sell. The moment Microsoft does exactly that with Windows 8 and their vision for tablets, they are suddenly the money hungry devil? :) Oh well, not trying to change any minds, just think win 8 is getting a bum rap. Carry on.

That's fair in a sense to say what can't you run on Windows 7, but that's not a very good counter argument to what I was trying to say, which is that windows 8 is every bit a PC operating system in all the same ways that Windows 7 currently is. With a counter like that, all you're really doing is proving my point that Windows 8 is capable of doing literally everything that, in my view, the best PC operating system out there right now, Windows 7, is capable of doing. Not a very good way to prove your argument that Windows 8 is somehow more of a tablet OS than it is a serious PC operating system. You can't get any more crazy than flipping out over the start menu, as if the start screen doesn't already do the same basic thing and then some.

Just because they put a major focus this time around on streamlining the entire interface, and building it from the very start with both PC and Tablets in mind, that doesn't automatically make it more of a tablet operating system than a PC operating system, especially when every single thing that you can do with touch gestures in Windows 8 is also easily done with the mouse and keyboard. If there was one thing that I would suggest they improve, it's that when you're inside the Start Screen, and want to scroll to the left or right, that they make that entire process more intelligent and quicker for those without touch screens. Sure i can easily just use my mouse, but I don't want to do it like that. Sure, I can easily use my left and right keys on my keyboard, but I don't want to do it like that either. So, what do I want? I want to be able to, with a keyboard shortcut, easily and immediately jump to the rest of the apps that I can't see. Or at least give us a quick skim left, quick skim right feature of some sort, perhaps using the two shift keys on the keyboard. If you press left shift, you jump a few skips to the left, and if you press right shift, you jump a few skips to the right. But then this will obviously get improved through updates, similar to how Apple does with the Ipad. And to be honest, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if something like this is already in there, but I just don't know how to do it yet. I've used windows for years, and there are constantly shortcuts and little tricks that I learn that I never really bothered to utilize before, and I expect the same to remain true in Windows 8.

You obviously don't upgrade, especially nowadays with so many third party solutions available, to a new OS because there is something extremely vital to your everyday computing that you will be able to do that you can't already more or less do on your current OS, but because you like enough of the new additions and changes that they've made, and are excited to make it your primary means of computing. I like a lot of the changes and additions to Windows 8. Could care less what anyone else thinks. There's a lot that I can do with 3rd party software, but then there are things that I wouldn't mind being included in the OS by default, or in some cases would much prefer to have by default. Yea, what Microsoft did with Windows is risky, but it's a damn good risk, if I ever saw one. I like to see companies try and be ambitious, even if it sometimes fizzles out and dies.

If by substance and insight, you mean absolutely nothing but anti-Microsoft red meat for people who are genetically predisposed to criticizing everything Microsoft does, right or wrong, then I suppose you would believe such a thing. However, if on the other hand, you are the kind of person that likes to approach these types of things with a legitimately open mind, and notices that for some strange reason very few people can even come up with actual substantive and descriptive reasons which someone else can head into Windows 8 and prove or disprove for themselves for why Windows 8 is so god awful, then you might be less inclined to buy into the doom and gloom, and just focus more on how you personally feel about Windows 8. I see a lot of folks that couldn't even begin to understand or even care about what OEMs or developers lose or gain from Windows 8 -- not suggesting you're one such individual, Grift, but are pretty much parroting the same red meat lines that they heard Gabe Newell say (which wasn't very much to begin with, might I add) as if any of what was said was somehow a well informed critique of where Windows 8 is going wrong. It's accusations, accusations, accusations, with no proof to back it up with. Gabe is pissed about the Windows App Store and nothing else. World of Warcraft is losing popularity, and probably on its last legs, and Blizzard doesn't need more reasons for people (translation: Windows users) to possibly start losing interest and spending their money elsewhere.

Blizzard needs to be much more concerned about things like Guild Wars 2 and getting their own acts together rather than engaging in shameless fear-mongering about what Microsoft is doing with Windows 8.

Besides that, how many people use their computers on a day to day basis, and give a crap about what HP and Dell's bottom line is like? How many care that Dell continues to release computers that just up and die for no reason other than they are being used, so long as their own computer works? All of a sudden you got all these people who normally spend 80% of the time when they are talking about OEMs basically insulting the shameless products that a lot of them put out there in an effort to get a quick profit, but now every average joe pc user and their mother is suddenly concerned about the OEMs. Those poor, poor, innocent OEMs that are being bullied by the big bad money grubbers at Microsoft. They put out such amazing products that more and more are opting to just build their own computers instead. :P Hell, these are the same innocent OEMs that overcharge out the behind for a decent looking rig that you can build for hundreds of dollars less, while ensuring you get all quality parts at the same time.

Sorry, not buying the concern over OEMs. I can buy Gabe being concerned, even if his reasons are purely and transparently financial in nature, but let's just say I'm not buying it from literally every post I see criticizing Windows 8 on the internet. The best arguments that people have are "They took our start menus!!!." I damn near expect a south park parody of these people in due time, one basically mirroring the "They took our jobs!" crowd. It matters not at all that this is the most significant upgrade the task manager has seen in god knows how long. It matters not that the memory management of the OS is so much damn better better, and Windows 8 pretty much performs and feels notably faster than Windows 7 on the same exact hardware, at least almost certainly from a desktop experience point of view. Maybe it's a placebo effect that will go away in time, but for $40? Yea, I'll take and enjoy my placebo. If any OEMs will be pushed out of the industry, it won't be due to Microsoft. It will be because these OEMs have been running themselves into the ground for years. While they are busy working overtime to win some meaningless pr war, designed to make Microsoft the fall guy for all their years of failures, Microsft will continue along with a path they feel is best for them, not foolishly allowing themselves to continue to be caught flat footed as an entirely new market for computing is emerging, while OEMs aren't even attempting to be mildly creative. Just watch and see how many of these OEMs push the hell out of their Windows 8 computers products. Then we'll see all the doom and gloom for what it actually was all along: a whole lot of nothing.

You believe you even have people on the internet claiming the classic control panel is gone and can't even be added to the Metro UI?? It's crazy out there. Batshit crazy.

As I already said, though, not trying to change any minds.

Heh, ah yes, but shameless fear mongering is precisely what they are doing, and I'm calling it like I see it. A stripped down desktop layer is the best you can come up with? Come on, that's weak. It sounds to me like you don't really know how to criticize Windows 8, so you keep it as non specific and general as possible, and you are asking if I use the operating system? I mean, personally, this is all a case of a mountain being made out of a mole hill. I'm still dying for this highly interesting explanation of how exactly it is that the start menu is so superior to the start screen. I have yet to hear it. You once told me something about nostalgia. Do you remember what that is ? ;) Earlier in this thread you mentioned to me about how highly used the windows start menu search bar in windows 7 is, but you must have noticed that I didn't even respond to that criticism, because that's when I felt that you weren't actually being very fair in your criticisms, for whatever reason. I felt it was either a case of you actually never actually using Windows 8 for yourself, or a case where you have used it, but never bothered to really explore just how much has changed/improved possibly because you were so stuck on what you hated, and thus painted the entire OS with this negative brush, regardless of the improvements.

Do you even realize how much more superior the search functions are in Windows 8?

Windows Explorer is one of the most used, most vital aspects of the desktop experience in Windows, and it has been made significantly better overall in Windows 8. How can the desktop be this stripped down fantasy that you are trying to paint it as when one of the desktops most vital features, windows explorer, is so much more powerful and feature rich? Just take a look, for example, at this video that showcases the search contextual tab. Size, Type and other properties, all there to further enhance your ability to search. And that feature to pin the elevated command prompt to the Windows Explorer? That's great.

gWgJyRY#t=02m44s" target="_blank" >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFgWgJyRY#t=02m44...


And the crazy thing is that there is so much more.

I look at the much improved Windows Explorer, the improved file copying features, the improved search functions, things like the much enhanced task manager, and the various multi-monitor improvements, as well as things like native ISO and VHD support, or the nicely streamlined ability to set a new baseline image for a fresh Windows 8 installation, where you can have specific programs/settings already available to you right from the start of your fresh installation, and I just come away feeling that your stripped down desktop layer criticism is way off base, because it really seems that you don't know, or maybe just don't care about all the improvements to Windows 8, which is all fine and dandy if you really don't care, but I don't get it.

All I see is blind hate for Windows 8 (mad rhyming skills :P). Latch onto what Blizzard and Gabe said as much as you want. It doesn't change the reality.

Sure, we can all act as if OEMs haven't been putting out totally shitty products for years now. Sure, we can act as if they haven't been failing well enough on their own for years without much assistance from Microsoft in doing so. We can even play a game of forgive and forget, and instead of blaming HP, just choose to blame Microsoft for HP's failed investment in buying webOS that I believe is suppose to lose them well over $2 billion when all is said and done. And finally while we're at it, let's go ahead and blame Microsoft as well for their horribly flawed touchpad tablets. Microsoft is suppose to rely on the geniuses that produced these results to show consumers what a Windows 8 tablet is all about? At least if Microsoft is going to fail, they are owed the privilege of failing after giving it their best shot, not sitting idle while the cheap, half assed efforts of OEMs does it for them.

You go ahead and keep believing Gabe has zero financial motivation for the things he has said, and that he isn't remotely concerned that the Windows 8 App Store has a high potential to negatively impact Steam sales. He's concerned about building up on Linux, because he knows a tremendous degree of his Steam eggs are in the Microsoft basket, and he is trying to diminish the negative fallout for his company. Don't get me wrong, just as Microsoft has every right to plan for the future and look out for what they feel is in their best interest, the same is absolutely true of Gabe and Valve, but perhaps gabe thinks nobody is able to put two and two together? Nonetheless, we have run this argument into the ground. I like Windows 8, you don't. The end :)

Metro is such a failure. I like how Metro start menu is so awkward to use with mouse and keyboard which is like how 99.999% of users have to use it. My mind is blown from the stupidity.

To me it seems like when MS can't compete with others (GFWL store lol) they are going to turn Windows with small steps to just support their own store... I don't want MS certification BS team anywhere near to my PC game patches. They are so damn slow...

I wouldn't say it's awkward to use with a mouse and keyboard. It's actually pretty well setup for a mouse and keyboard, but there are obviously improvements that can be made, and probably will be made. I'm expecting Metro to continually be updated in a similar fashion to what Apple does with iOS.

Everything that can be done with a touch screen, can also be done in full with a keyboard and mouse. And once you learn the various shortcuts, it gets better.

For example, something I myself complained about in this very thread, turns out that there's a simple solution to scrolling through the metro UI that I didn't know about :P As I was looking up some metro shortcuts, I found this. Now I feel a little stupid for not trying this myself sooner.

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/software/operatin...Also had no idea that I could move the start screen to a separate monitor, which is good for me because I use multiple monitors.

I should have looked at this list of shortcuts much sooner. List of all Windows 8 shortcuts.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=2ee8d462a8f365a0&re...

Also, didn't know I could peak at the desktop that way. And there's really no point in us arguing over it, Grift. As I said, you don't like Windows 8. That's fine, but I do. I have a very different opinion about what Microsoft is doing, and what Windows 8 will mean for OEMs and developers. I think an App Store on a major Windows OS release will be great for developers. And when you factor in the potential for reusable code between windows phone 8, surface tablets and Windows 8, life could be made easier for devs looking to port to other places. It also isn't like Microsoft would be the first to take a percentage from sales of apps on their digital storefront. Apple does it, Steam does it. Then, on the tablet space, you've had OEMs exploring Android like mad, and still are, and were publicly discussing plans to continue doing just that even before Surface was ever revealed. None of this was ever seen as somehow a betrayal of MS, but MS exploring their own options tied to the promotion of their own product, Windows 8, is this gigantic betrayal? Come on :)

seriously...he needs a new tag. "Official Microsoft Spokesman" sounds about right for him

haha

lol still doesn't change the fact that it seems like I'm one of the few people in this thread that has actually been using Windows 8 on a regular enough basis to know what I'm talking about, and isn't just talking out his behind because of some old and tired Microsoft is the devil and crushes the little guy mentality, which blinds them from actually attempting to be fair minded in their criticisms of things Microsoft does. :)

How else could someone in this thread mention windows 7's start menu search bar as an argument against Windows 8 when Windows 8's search features are clearly superior to anything that's in Windows 7? Allow me to let you in on a huge little secret. There's a reason that Grift has chosen to gloss over specific facts regarding what I've said is actually in Windows 8, and that has been proven to be in Windows 8, or why he has chosen to ignore all the improvements that have been made over Windows 7, as well as any videos I've posted to back up my claims. He has no way of contradicting these things, and knows full well that this is the case. Why else do you think he keeps falling back on quick get in, get out arguments combined with grasping with all his might on what Gabe has said as his only possible means of having something to say against Windows 8? Could it be because he himself can't find real, detailed criticisms based on facts and his own experiences?

He talks about how much the start menu has been improved over the past 2 iterations, but then can list nothing specific to back it up with, obviously for fear that the same exact thing is possibly already in Windows 8, possibly also superior, and his comments will thus further be exposed as blind Microsoft hate. Until Grift can tell me what it is exactly in Windows 8 that truly qualifies it as this "stripped down desktop layer", or more of a tablet OS than a PC OS, besides rubbish like the desktop is treated like an app (Yea, one of the most powerful and versatile fucking "apps" that we've witnessed since, as some like to say, "Apple made the term app cool again."), or crap like they got rid of the start menu (even though the start screen is like the same damn thing only better. Will he do that? Can he do that? Or will he just tell me again how much more "insightful" the things Gabe says are than what I'm saying. :P Tongue input, baby! It's the future. Okay, just kidding, I know full well Gabe doesn't really see Tongue input catching on. :D

The heart of the issue that you guys seem to have with me is how stubbornly I defend why it is I believe what I believe, and could care less what anyone else thinks about that opinion. Team up against me, form an angry mob if you will. It doesn't matter. Peer pressure and open condemnation, much less on a forum of all places, is my bitch. I feed off of reactions like this. :) I'm not going to up and form a completely new opinion on something I've been using for myself solely based on criticism from one or two individuals of significance, even if that criticism comes from the likes of the great Gabe Newell. I really do respect the man, and unlike some riding his jock on here, I actually know the man personally, but that doesn't mean I'll kiss his ass even when I disagree with him. Now, when I say I know him, I'm not referring to some nonsense where I met the guy once or twice and got an autograph from him, or spoke to him as part of some interview for some site or publication. Nope, nothing of the sort, I actually know him and would classify him as a great friend (And no, I don't give a shit if you believe me, so I'm saving you the trouble of poking fun at my saying that I know the man), but he's not giving me anything to go on here. There has to be more substance or detail to that criticism so that I may consider it, and then go make an attempt to find out for myself whether I agree or not. Catastrophe? OEMs at risk? How about those same OEMs giving up 30% or more of their profit margins by abandoning Windows altogether. Let's see who jumps off that bridge first. Careful, the fall is a deadly one.

I've never been one to simply conform to another's way of thinking out of fear of getting on that person's bad side, or even becoming the subject of ridicule by one or more individuals. I don't know, I'm just stubborn that way. It's kinda crazy when you look at some reactions. One moment you have a guy excited about Windows 8, saying that for $40 he'll buy it for sure now, then after basically being intimidated by the mere thought of being on the opposite of Grift in an argument (Noticed this more than once already in a few threads. Grift steps in with some criticism that is opposite of what Doom believes, then doom backs off almost immediately, afraid of being targeted by Grift :P) Maybe your tag should be "I fear Grift" sounds about right for you. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if your current tag was ironically given to you by Grift.

Trying your best to curry favor with him isn't going to make him like you any more than he already does, or maybe it will, and if such is the case, then by all means continue, because you're probably winning him over as we speak.

People's qualms with Windows 8 are not anything in the realm of a lack of overall functionality, versatility or overall usability compared to windows 7. The complaints are wholly nostalgic and stylistic in nature. Any specific task that a person wanted to do in Windows 7, can be done in the same number of steps, or faster in Windows 8, but don't let that get in the way of your Windows 8 hate or anything. And with a simple dropping of this video as a small example of what I'm talking about, I'm just about close to being done here :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaTRg3bcyRk

Just come out and say you just don't like the style or appearance of Windows 8. Don't claim it isn't a real PC operating system simply because you don't like how it looks, or because you don't like the simple idea of Microsoft planning ahead and making sure their new OS is fully capable of delivering a high quality tablet experience as well as a traditional high quality pc experience, when tablets are quickly becoming popular at a rate nobody could have predicted years ago. Microsoft is a software company, one of top software companies in the world, love em or hate em. They don't get anywhere by ignoring what consumers are obviously gravitating more and more towards.

In conclusion, I like Windows 8. Suck it!

Oh, and my lips are sealed. I promise :P


http://kotaku.com/5930705/now-valve-is-trying-to-s...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48486...

Popular trends catch on, I guess :)

I'm just messing around about that, Grift. I was just playing a little devil's advocate. Steam, from my extensive experience, treats their customers fantastically, and I've never had a bad experience. On top of that, I think every company these days needs to take extraordinary measures to protect themselves from parasites looking to exploit them for no good reason. The honest companies, no matter how dicey the legal stuff might look, tend to go out of their way to reassure customers that their concerns/complaints are still important to them. I'd understand these class action lawsuits in cases where there is gross disregard for taking care of customers and rectifying issues, but sometimes people jump at the slightest little thing to try and drag a companies name through the mud.

I remember a few years back when someone stole my steamid, and they really went above and beyond to get me my account back. One of the best customer service experiences I've ever had. They even took the trouble of notifying everybody that was on my friend's list, and that wasn't a tiny list either, that my account had been stolen, and that they shouldn't believe anything said by the imposter. He was apparently being a real dick to the people on my friends list. And they were very patient and understanding, because I really didn't have all the necessary info on hand at the time to totally prove it was my account, but they went much further, asking me to confirm things that only I could know, and even engaged in conversations with the imposter (not revealing who they are of course) designed to make sure that this wasn't a situation of someone selling a steam account and then trying to screw the person over and get it back. Guy was totally pretending to be me, name and all, and yea that was all she wrote. Who does internet espionage for their customers? Valve does :P

And with regards to Win 8. Mean no disrespect, but I kinda like where they've gone with it. Maybe this just isn't the version for you. I don't expect them to go away from accommodating their vision for a high quality tablet/traditional pc experience on Windows anytime soon, but perhaps come the next version of Windows enough changes/additions that will be more to your liking will be added. A lot of people hated Vista, for example, and boy did it have problems, but once I got it setup just the way I needed it for my computer, I really didn't have any problems with it. This might be some people's vista. But then maybe when Microsoft gets another crack at it, perhaps they'll quell concerns.

You guys should just make out :P

Seriously OP, you write too many words. Grift, while sounding very pissy and jaded( jeez Grift, you have been making a point of giving OP tons of shit recently, lol), is making effective arguments with a tenth of the words.

You know, that's always been a problem of mine, and I'm dead serious. I write way too damn much. Even in high school and college, that was the most common complaint I got on any of my papers. "Too wordy" "Can make the point with less words." That sorta thing.

Would get great grades, but always too wordy was a common complaint. And don't think it doesn't annoy me, because it does lol. I hate it as much as you guys do, but by the time I finish typing and notice the length, I just say "what the hell, at least if they bother to read it all, which I can't blame them for not wanting to do, they'll have a pretty good idea of where I'm coming from."

I will do a better job of this in the future. Part of my problem is that I think that if I'm not wordy at times, that people won't completely understand where I'm coming from. But then, there was a professor in college that got me to stop doing this for a pretty long while, and all it took was her telling me that the way I write comes off as if I don't respect the intelligence of the people I'm expecting to read it. She says if I can read something much shorter and concise written by another individual, and can accurately grasp exactly where they're coming from, why would I think anyone that reads what I write is any less capable of doing the same thing? It was a huge wakeup call, as it's rarely ever my intent to disrespect the reader. I never made the mistake again in college. However, i tend to go back to that bad habit far more than I like. :)

Windows 8 Style UI? Not a very good name at all. I too prefer Metro.

I feel the same way about this new name as I feel about the name Surface RT. Not the best name they could have chosen for that, either.

A simple "Surface" would have been enough.

Heh, heh- I think you guys are both calling metro for different reasons

Whatever the reason, it's safe to say we are both in agreement that the new name is not an improvement :P

So they're going to be calling the apps "Windows 8 Style UI Apps?" instead of Metro Apps? That would sound so bad. I've been hearing that MS is planning changes/new additoins to the desktop side of things regarding interface for the retail release. I wonder if this new name has anything to do with it. Nothing drastic, mind you, but apparently something to make the Metro interface and Desktop taskbar blend better together or something like that. Can't remember where I read/heard this at, though.

Oh okay, just your basic patent claim threat then.