Windows Phone 7

Since 7602 Days

I live in sweden and I've pretty much decided to get a WP7. The HTC Mozart looks really slick, but for some reason it's not in stock anywhere and I've not been able to find any info on why that is.

Are there any phone buffs around, and if so, do you guys know if there's some sort of production shortage or some availability issues/limitations on this thing? The HTC Trophy is readily available and mostly seems comparable features wise, but it has a worse camera and a more plasticy design, so I don't wanna rush out and get that one if the Mozart is around the corner.

I know that in the UK they're available through different operators, with Orange hogging the Mozart.

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Jato

Since 7455 Days

Even though I'm very charmed by Windows Phone 7, I've gone the Android route, so I'm affraid I'm not of much use here. Either way, I think the place to be for your enquiries would be here:

a Developers HTC 7 Mozart subforum:

a-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=779" target="_blank" >http://forum.a-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f...

Official product website:

http://www.htc.com/www/product/7mozart/overview.ht...

Where to buy:

http://www.htc.com/www/where_to_buy.aspx

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SimonM7

Since 7602 Days

Thanks for replying!

The thing about availability though is that every retailer listed on the swedish HTC site is still waiting for stock, with no release/stock date given. There's no discernable reason for it to arrive late, but I've noticed that the HTC HD7 is also missing in most places.

I've done some more investigating and from what I gather the HTC Trophy is essentially the same piece of hardware but with a less fancy finish and camera. I may go for that one instead.

I'm having doubts about whether I should jump on a windows phone 7 after all though. I get carried away with things like this. I really like the sound of Xbox Live intergration and I'm very much a microsoft user in that I totally use a Windows OS/PC, Windows Media Player for music, Zune for movies on the 360, and primarily use my 360 for streaming and gaming. In terms of fancy connectivity the things unique to a wp7 are the ones I'm the most likely to find useful.

But then I'm so very unfamiliar with smartphones on the whole. I don't really know the benefits of any of these OS. Or cons for that matter! If it's not too much trouble, care to give me a quick rundown of why you prefer the Android?

In reply to

Thanks for replying!

The thing about availability though is that every retailer listed on the swedish HTC site is still waiting for stock, with no release/stock date given. There's no discernable reason for it to arrive late, but I've noticed that the HTC HD7 is also missing in most places.

I've done some more investigating and from what I gather the HTC Trophy is essentially the same piece of hardware but with a less fancy finish and camera. I may go for that one instead.

I'm having doubts about whether I should jump on a windows phone 7 after all though. I get carried away with things like this. I really like the sound of Xbox Live intergration and I'm very much a microsoft user in that I totally use a Windows OS/PC, Windows Media Player for music, Zune for movies on the 360, and primarily use my 360 for streaming and gaming. In terms of fancy connectivity the things unique to a wp7 are the ones I'm the most likely to find useful.

But then I'm so very unfamiliar with smartphones on the whole. I don't really know the benefits of any of these OS. Or cons for that matter! If it's not too much trouble, care to give me a quick rundown of why you prefer the Android?

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GriftGFX

Since 7579 Days

I'm not crazy about some of the features WP7 currently lacks (tethering, multitasking), but I do have my eye on it. I'm actually holding off on upgrading until January+ so I can see some of the new handsets my carrier is supposed to get. There are no WP7 CDMA phones yet. I'm interested in the HTC Pro 7 or whatever it's called. It's basically the Touch Pro 3.

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Jato

Since 7455 Days

My main reason for choosing Android is the customizable nature of the OS, mainly directed at the UI. Stock Android already gives you plenty of options to tinker with in the form of themes, wallpapers, widgets etc. And if you want more, there's plenty to mess with in terms of custom kernels/roms etc etc. A big con for Android is that due to lack of hardware acceleration for the UI, things can be get bit choppy now and then. Especially webbrowsing is much smoother on WP7 and iOS. Also, WP7 and iOs are more stable, due to their 'closed' nature, opposed to Android more 'open' approach.

Android's use of widgets is what really appeals to me. I'm not a big fan of having a screen filled with little icons, so having a couple of 'homescreens' with just 1 or 2, maybe 3 widgets on it really is ideal in my case. For example. My main screen is a bit like the following picture:

It's only one of two homescreens I have that has 4 icons to my most used apps, and ofcourse the settings/phone/customize buttons on the bottom, which you always get with the Sense UI. All my other homescreens have just one widget that act as an interface for the different applications. I have a bookmarks widget which I use to access the intenetbrowser, I have a RSS news widget which directly show the latest news from Engadget. On yet another homescreen I have a music widget. Then I have another homescreen with a widget for my email and so on. This way I can just immediately go to a homescreen (or 'page' if you will) and instead of having these screens cluttered with icons, I get a nice and clean representation of it's function.

All other apps that I only use occasionally I can still access via the app drawer, which is basicly just a list of apps representated by Icons as seen on the iPhone UI. But I rarely even access this app drawer, seeing as my main applications are accessed via the widget I have placed on my homescreens.

I really love the slick look and flow of WP7, but it's lack of customization features puts me off. Another drawback is removable storage.

Let's say you bought an WP7 device with an 8GB MicroSD card. If you want to expand that with a 16GB MicroSD card, you will have to do a hard reset of your phone, because WP7 uses a 'unified storage system' which basicly means that if you exchange the excisting MicroSD card for another one, the phone will not function properly anymore due to the layout of the filesystem where all data is spread across the internal storage and the removable storage (MicroSD). In that case you will need to perform a hard reset to get the phone fully functioning again. Read more about it here:

a-developers.com/showthread.php?t=649938" target="_blank" >http://forum.a-developers.com/showthread.php?t=6...

On top of that, many phones have a warranty seal in front of the MicroSD slot which means that exchanging your MicroSD card will void your warranty. Some other WP7 devices have you take the phone almost completely apart to exchange the MicroSD card. So that is definitely something to take into account.

Also, I'm not an Android fanboy. I think there is room for both Android, WP7 and iOS devices. I just happen to prefer Android, that's all. :)

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My main reason for choosing Android is the customizable nature of the OS, mainly directed at the UI. Stock Android already gives you plenty of options to tinker with in the form of themes, wallpapers, widgets etc. And if you want more, there's plenty to mess with in terms of custom kernels/roms etc etc. A big con for Android is that due to lack of hardware acceleration for the UI, things can be get bit choppy now and then. Especially webbrowsing is much smoother on WP7 and iOS. Also, WP7 and iOs are more stable, due to their 'closed' nature, opposed to Android more 'open' approach.

Android's use of widgets is what really appeals to me. I'm not a big fan of having a screen filled with little icons, so having a couple of 'homescreens' with just 1 or 2, maybe 3 widgets on it really is ideal in my case. For example. My main screen is a bit like the following picture:

[IMG]http://i55.tinypic.com/le1sk.jpg[/IMG]

It's only one of two homescreens I have that has 4 icons to my most used apps, and ofcourse the settings/phone/customize buttons on the bottom, which you always get with the Sense UI. All my other homescreens have just one widget that act as an interface for the different applications. I have a bookmarks widget which I use to access the intenetbrowser, I have a RSS news widget which directly show the latest news from Engadget. On yet another homescreen I have a music widget. Then I have another homescreen with a widget for my email and so on. This way I can just immediately go to a homescreen (or 'page' if you will) and instead of having these screens cluttered with icons, I get a nice and clean representation of it's function.

[URL=http://img831.imageshack.us/i/device17.png/][IMG]http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/2208/device17.th.png[/IMG][/URL]

All other apps that I only use occasionally I can still access via the app drawer, which is basicly just a list of apps representated by Icons as seen on the iPhone UI. But I rarely even access this app drawer, seeing as my main applications are accessed via the widget I have placed on my homescreens.

I really love the slick look and flow of WP7, but it's lack of customization features puts me off. Another drawback is removable storage.

Let's say you bought an WP7 device with an 8GB MicroSD card. If you want to expand that with a 16GB MicroSD card, you will have to do a hard reset of your phone, because WP7 uses a 'unified storage system' which basicly means that if you exchange the excisting MicroSD card for another one, the phone will not function properly anymore due to the layout of the filesystem where all data is spread across the internal storage and the removable storage (MicroSD). In that case you will need to perform a hard reset to get the phone fully functioning again. Read more about it here:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=649938

On top of that, many phones have a warranty seal in front of the MicroSD slot which means that exchanging your MicroSD card will void your warranty. Some other WP7 devices have you take the phone almost completely apart to exchange the MicroSD card. So that is definitely something to take into account.

Also, I'm not an Android fanboy. I think there is room for both Android, WP7 and iOS devices. I just happen to prefer Android, that's all. :)

-- "Bob Loblaw Lobs Law Bomb" --

-- "You're under arrest, and I'm breaking up with you..." --

SimonM7

Since 7602 Days

Oh I can't believe I didn't thank you for the write-up! I read it and it was very enlightening.

I found out what's up with the strange availability issues for some WP7 phones today. Turns out they're only semi-launched here. There is no swedish version of the OS itself, and Xbox Live and Zune Marketplace are both unavailable unless you use a Live ID from a country where it has been proper launched.

Nobody can say when it'll be sorted for swedish users, but there are ways to circumvent the limitations for the time being, although it looks like the Xbox Live functionality won't support a swedish gamertag at present. That's a bit of a bummer, but as long as I can access the Marketplace and get the free apps I'm good, at least if the swedish overhaul is reasonably imminent.

I can see why the level of customisation that Android allows would be a huge boon for tinkerers, and I think I would've very much enjoyed that stuff back when I was more inclined to mess around with things like that. Right now I'm pretty lazy and just want a nice looking, fast interface, and it does seem like WP7 suits me perfectly in this regard. It's always a little scary to buy first gen stuff though and this is no different. Every one of the available phones have some quirk, but at the same time I'm really impatient when an idea to PURCHASE A THING has been planted in my head. By me. Damn me!

I'm gonna head out tomorrow and see if I can get some hands on time with these still very abstract devices whose appearance in my mind is only informed by product shots taken in heaven.

In reply to

Oh I can't believe I didn't thank you for the write-up! I read it and it was very enlightening.

I found out what's up with the strange availability issues for some WP7 phones today. Turns out they're only semi-launched here. There is no swedish version of the OS itself, and Xbox Live and Zune Marketplace are both unavailable unless you use a Live ID from a country where it has been proper launched.

Nobody can say when it'll be sorted for swedish users, but there are ways to circumvent the limitations for the time being, although it looks like the Xbox Live functionality won't support a swedish gamertag at present. That's a bit of a bummer, but as long as I can access the Marketplace and get the free apps I'm good, at least if the swedish overhaul is reasonably imminent.

I can see why the level of customisation that Android allows would be a huge boon for tinkerers, and I think I would've very much enjoyed that stuff back when I was more inclined to mess around with things like that. Right now I'm pretty lazy and just want a nice looking, fast interface, and it does seem like WP7 suits me perfectly in this regard. It's always a little scary to buy first gen stuff though and this is no different. Every one of the available phones have some quirk, but at the same time I'm really impatient when an idea to PURCHASE A THING has been planted in my head. By me. Damn me!

I'm gonna head out tomorrow and see if I can get some hands on time with these still very abstract devices whose appearance in my mind is only informed by product shots taken in heaven.

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GriftGFX

Since 7579 Days

There's not a lot of variety in WP7 hardware, anyway. Microsoft has mandated a standard set of hardware components and locked them down. It's a frighteningly Apple-like approach. I can't imagine the hardware platform seeing significant upgrades until late next year. Having just launched, and sticking to such strict guidelines, it's easy to see everyone running the same configuration for a while.

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SimonM7

Since 7602 Days

Yeah, it's really down to what kind of form factor you prefer. There are devices with slide-out keyboards coming in january, and of the ones available now it's mainly the battery life, size/quality of the screen and cameras that differ. And with those, the price.

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Jato

Since 7455 Days

Yeah, I'd say WP7 definitely is a good choice for you. Like I said, I don't think there's a 'bad' choice to be made with either Android, WP7 or iOS. Obviously the Xbox live integration (when fully functional in Europe), Zune etc is a big plus if you use your 360 a lot for media purposes (and gaming ofcourse). I think MS just might have a winner with WP7, it just looks like something that is bound to take off bigtime if everything works out well functional/development-wise. As for WP7 devices, the Dell Venue Pro is definitely my fav..so damn sexy!

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-- "Bob Loblaw Lobs Law Bomb" --

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SimonM7

Since 7602 Days

Yeah, I've been doing another sweep today and really getting down in the grit with some sales guys about what deals you can get, how much you can shave off the price and what models they can get hold of. It's abundantly clear that if I don't wanna sign up with "Tre" here, who have sole rights to sell the Samsung Omnia 7 for some reason, the HTC Trophy looks like the best option right now.

Even then it has a fairly poor camera, though, and being privy to touch it today I have some ever so slight reservations about the rubbery build. Mainly because my tablet PC had a rubbery finish on the sides THAT FELL OFF. It's just a bad association, and I may warm to the Trophy in a less chained-up-in-a-dungeon, blasted with spotlights environment than the electronics chains that let me fondle it today.

In january the HTC 7 Pro is coming out with a slide-out keyboard

I really like the look of HTC's WP7 models, but I'm not sure how much I'd benefit from the keyboard. I do intend to attend more electronics shows as I develop M7, and it would probably make blogging on the spot easier, but.. I dunno. Is it that big of a difference from tapping on the screen once you get used to the lack of feedback?

One thing is also clear from my time with different models today, there's no waaaay I'll go bigger than the Trophy's 3.8" screen. I thought even that was shockingly big in reality, and I do want to be able to treat it like a phone, not a purse.

In reply to

Yeah, I've been doing another sweep today and really getting down in the grit with some sales guys about what deals you can get, how much you can shave off the price and what models they can get hold of. It's abundantly clear that if I don't wanna sign up with "Tre" here, who have sole rights to sell the Samsung Omnia 7 for some reason, the HTC Trophy looks like the best option right now.

Even then it has a fairly poor camera, though, and being privy to touch it today I have some ever so slight reservations about the rubbery build. Mainly because my tablet PC had a rubbery finish on the sides THAT FELL OFF. It's just a bad association, and I may warm to the Trophy in a less chained-up-in-a-dungeon, blasted with spotlights environment than the electronics chains that let me fondle it today.

In january the HTC 7 Pro is coming out with a slide-out keyboard

[img]http://www.htc.com/uploadedImages/WWW/Product/HTC_7_Pro/image7.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.htc.com/uploadedImages/WWW/Product/HTC_7_Pro/image5.jpg[/img]

I really like the look of HTC's WP7 models, but I'm not sure how much I'd benefit from the keyboard. I do intend to attend more electronics shows as I develop M7, and it would probably make blogging on the spot easier, but.. I dunno. Is it that big of a difference from tapping on the screen once you get used to the lack of feedback?

One thing is also clear from my time with different models today, there's no waaaay I'll go bigger than the Trophy's 3.8" screen. I thought even that was shockingly big in reality, and I do want to be able to treat it like a phone, not a purse.

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GriftGFX

Since 7579 Days

The Pro 7 is the one I sorta want.

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Jato

Since 7455 Days

Haha, I'm the exact opposite. I have an HTC Desire HD with a 4,3" screen and after owning one for a few weeks, I can never go back to anything sub 4". I now and then pick up my 3,5" iPhone again, and it's just...too small! And honestly, it doesn't feel all that chunky at all (it does have a pretty slim design, so that does help). A friend of mine has a Dell Streak, now that's huge (but awesome nonetheless)!

As for a slide-out keyboard, I honestly couldn't tell ya. Many people swear by a physical keyboard, while others claim that once they get the hang of it, they can type pretty much as fast and accurate on the touchkeyboard as a physical one. I am shit at typing regardless, so I don't care and just settle with the touchkeyboard. :)

Most smartphones these days do give you additional feedback through vibration when typing, so perhaps that helps a bunch for the 'feel'.

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SimonM7

Since 7602 Days

I think I'm probably gonna adjust pretty easily to typing with touch only.

And yeah, I've looked at the iPhone too and that's definitely too small instead!

Usability wise it's of course a huge relief with a bigger screen, getting your sausage fingers all up in there, but for portability, stuffing it down your pants isn't gonna happen with an 4.3" HTC HD7 unless you've got monster pockets.

Which is another slight worry with the rubbery feel of the Trophy. Sure it makes gripping it feel good, but it'll be like putting on socks on wet feet to stuff it in your sexy jeans.

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Jato

Since 7455 Days

Yeah, it is a trade-off between portability and usability. I always wear jeans, so it's no problem for me. ;)

Not too sure about the rubber on the Trophy, but the Desire HD has a couple of rubbery-ish patches and it feels pretty nice in combination with the aluminum body.

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-- "You're under arrest, and I'm breaking up with you..." --

SimonM7

Since 7602 Days

I've been sent tailspinning by the news that the Android Market is open in sweden while the Zune Marketplace still requires a UK/US account. In the event that MS actually release something that ties into your ACTUAL Xbox Live gamertag/WLID I can't use my real one and access Xbox Live from the WP7.

Urgh.

Same thing was the case with Android and iPhone here in sweden and it took for-fucking-ever for those two to allow access to their respective marketplace. Microsoft won't give any indication of when to expect Zune/XBL for swedish WLIDs, and it could potentially take just as long.

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SimonM7

Since 7602 Days

Gonna go for one of these. It doesn't look like much, but it's robust like a brick, meaning I won't need to be as conscious about how I handle it as some of the fancier looking devices that look like they'll explode in a cascade of a bajillion pieces if you place them hastily on a table. Also, it's got physical buttons for the back, windows and search shotcuts, which means you won't accidentally hit those while playing a game or writing a document, or anything where you hold the phone sideways.

It's also got 16GB storage unlike the more common 8GB, a slightly better (but still not super impressive) camera than the HTC Trophy - my other candidate - and the LG specific apps that are pre-installed are actually pretty neat.

There's a panorama photography app that I'm sure I'll have a blast with for approx 7 minutes, which is a lot compared to most novelty apps. Another is ScanSearch, which is an AR application that uses the compass/gyro/camera so that you can just point it in a direction and icons pop up for stores and stuff. Not sure if that'll even work in sweden, but it's a cool *and* useful application if it does.

Last but not least of the features somewhat unique to the LG at this point is media sharing to any compatible DLNA device with the "Play To" app. It's super fast, scans for your compatible devices, and is ready to go as soon as you allow it on said device. On a comp with WMP you can give the phone remote control capabilites, too.

It's also got a larger battery, so it simply keeps going for longer than the feebler HTC Trophy.

So yeah, feeling pretty good about this one. May order one already tomorrow.

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[img]http://simonlundmark.com/storage/images/optimus7.jpg[/img]

Gonna go for one of these. It doesn't look like much, but it's robust like a brick, meaning I won't need to be as conscious about how I handle it as some of the fancier looking devices that look like they'll explode in a cascade of a bajillion pieces if you place them hastily on a table. Also, it's got physical buttons for the back, windows and search shotcuts, which means you won't accidentally hit those while playing a game or writing a document, or anything where you hold the phone sideways.

It's also got 16GB storage unlike the more common 8GB, a slightly better (but still not super impressive) camera than the HTC Trophy - my other candidate - and the LG specific apps that are pre-installed are actually pretty neat.

There's a panorama photography app that I'm sure I'll have a blast with for approx 7 minutes, which is a lot compared to most novelty apps. Another is ScanSearch, which is an AR application that uses the compass/gyro/camera so that you can just point it in a direction and icons pop up for stores and stuff. Not sure if that'll even work in sweden, but it's a cool *and* useful application if it does.

Last but not least of the features somewhat unique to the LG at this point is media sharing to any compatible DLNA device with the "Play To" app. It's super fast, scans for your compatible devices, and is ready to go as soon as you allow it on said device. On a comp with WMP you can give the phone remote control capabilites, too.

It's also got a larger battery, so it simply keeps going for longer than the feebler HTC Trophy.

So yeah, feeling pretty good about this one. May order one already tomorrow.

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gmulis

Since 7367 Days

alot of features have not been implemented, which is understable since it just came out. it would be wiser to wait what else is added and see how its supported before buying a phone with windows phone 7

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You can dream all you want, kid, but it won't do any good 'cause when you wake up again you'll realize nothing has changed.

SimonM7

Since 7602 Days

Well, there's a certain spec all phones are required to have, so it's not like you'll be left behind in any way. Updates are rolled out by Microsoft as opposed to the phone makers or operators, keeping everyone on the same page.

The only "features" you'll be missing out on are make specific apps and some tiny variations on mem speed and camera quality.

MS have gone to great lengths to ensure specifically that you won't get ripped off by first gen stuff. Updates are rumoured to be set to jan/feb and nov next year and be absolutely huge. No matter what model you've bought you'll get the same update.

I'll swing by with some impressions when I get mine on monday.

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Jato

Since 7455 Days

Nice one! Seems like a good pick.

I'd be interested in reading your hands-on impressions on this one.. :)

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GriftGFX

Since 7579 Days

I'm pretty interested in this too. I'm not sold on any one platform at this point, so opinions are welcome.

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SimonM7

Since 7602 Days

Ok, typing this on my spanking new phone. Just gotten the computer up and running, so I'm kinda stoked to check that out right now. Will swing by with impressions tomorrow.

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GriftGFX

Since 7579 Days

Simon has all sorts of new toys :)

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SimonM7

Since 7602 Days

I do! And between all the new stuff and all the boxes and paper/plastic bags and whatnot, I frankly dunno where to sleep tonight. Prolly won't anyway. :P

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Jin187

Since 7323 Days

I have the Samsung Omnia 7 and i'm really loving the new OS (despite the limitations) but why on earth is the Zune Marketplace features STILL region locked??

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