Two images for Gothic 4

Commented on 2010-07-29 00:02:46

Looks nice but I'm always wary of screenshots/videos for this game as I expect the PC version to look much better than the console version (unfortunately).

In reply to

Megido

Commented on 2010-07-29 00:12:21

The environments look decent but the characters...not so much. But all that is moot since Gothic 1 and 2 are horrible games and i've never even once heard anything good about Gothic 3 :P

In reply to

Grimbarian

Commented on 2010-07-29 00:46:52

Disagree, Gothic 1 and 2 were superb games IMO and 3 had great potential but was forced out before it was ready by Jowood.

In reply to

Megido

Commented on 2010-07-29 00:48:31

Gothic 1 had 2 had some bits that were good if you ask me, but the experience as a whole was bloody awful.

In reply to

Grimbarian

Commented on 2010-07-29 10:19:35

I guess we maybe have different opinions as to what forms the "experience", for me it's setting, story, journey and in G1 and G2 that was excellent, easily let me overlook any bugs/technical issues.

Risen on the other hand was technically a step forward but lacked a real spark for me, enjoyable enough but would have been better if it was a Gothic world RPG, obviously as Gothic4 is a completely different developer I worry that it will be a sever letdown, not least the whole dumb down for console thing :(

In reply to

bleachedsmiles

Commented on 2010-07-29 20:30:45

it's a pc game through and through.. this is never a good sign for consoles. Gamers complain about console's dumbing down pc games but atleast you get far better quality control when console versions are the priority. When the pc versions the priority we all get offered a glitchy, bug ridden, mess, the majority of times - this soon to be a prime example.

In reply to

newtrick

Commented on 2010-07-30 02:09:21

With all due respect.. when console games go to pc. Their dumbed down beyond belief. Many of them arent that fun and are glitchy as well.

Don't just say its a one way thing >.<

In reply to

Megido

Commented on 2010-07-30 02:24:00

Dumbed down is a straight out lie, console to pc ports are however rather often pretty shitty. But i think that is more an issue with the input methods being so radically different. Something that works great with a pad might not work as well wit mous/keyboard and vise versa.

In reply to

bleachedsmiles

Commented on 2010-07-30 02:25:37

if you mean pc games getting bigger production values and more polish then yes, they're dumbed down. PC games are always going to be glitchy by nature of the fact they have to be compatable with such a variety of hardware. But you stand more a chance of getting them patched quicker..especially if the console versions need patching too.

Lets face it, it's very rare you'll get a big production value AAA exclusive PC game these days. SC2 you could probably count as one. Before that? what Crysis? several years ago.

PC gamings not dieing, it's existing off the back of consoles, and mmo's.

In reply to

Lafiel

Commented on 2010-07-30 10:10:40 In reply to Megido

Posted by Megido

Gothic 1 and 2 are horrible games

I loved Gothic 1 + 2 - two of my absolute favorite games. The world felt so alive and the atmosphere was top notch imho.

In reply to

GriftGFX

Commented on 2010-07-30 11:16:28 In reply to bleachedsmiles

Posted by bleachedsmiles

if you mean pc games getting bigger production values and more polish then yes, they're dumbed down. PC games are always going to be glitchy by nature of the fact they have to be compatable with such a variety of hardware. But you stand more a chance of getting them patched quicker..especially if the console versions need patching too.

Lets face it, it's very rare you'll get a big production value AAA exclusive PC game these days. SC2 you could probably count as one. Before that? what Crysis? several years ago.

PC gamings not dieing, it's existing off the back of consoles, and mmo's.

SC2 could probably count as one? Come on...

Crysis was released two years ago. Not quite several, more like a couple. There are other pretty well made PC exclusives in that time span too. Are they all Crysis-level productions? No, obviously not.. but they're not exactly budget titles either.

Exclusive titles are mostly dying on everything anyway. Don't forget that many, many games are multiplatform these days in general, and they don't all suck on PC! That doesn't even consider stuff like L4D/2, Dragon Age, etc. that were very PC-centric releases but multiplatform.

The games that are dumbed down are games like MW2 and BC2, which have a rich PC heritage but are "streamlined" for consoles. Streamlined is just a really polite way of saying dumbed down. Many of those games still play best on the PC though. Bad Company 2 is a good example of a game where obvious sacrifices have been made in its design but it still feels perfectly at home on the PC. The same goes for games like Oblivion and Fallout 3, and even games like Mass Effect and Batman shine on the PC.

PC gaming is fine.

In reply to

[quote=bleachedsmiles]if you mean pc games getting bigger production values and more polish then yes, they're dumbed down. PC games are always going to be glitchy by nature of the fact they have to be compatable with such a variety of hardware. But you stand more a chance of getting them patched quicker..especially if the console versions need patching too.

Lets face it, it's very rare you'll get a big production value AAA exclusive PC game these days. SC2 you could probably count as one. Before that? what Crysis? several years ago.

PC gamings not dieing, it's existing off the back of consoles, and mmo's.[/quote]

SC2 could [i]probably[/i] count as one? Come on...

Crysis was released [i]two[/i] years ago. Not quite several, more like a couple. There are other pretty well made PC exclusives in that time span too. Are they all Crysis-level productions? No, obviously not.. but they're not exactly budget titles either.

Exclusive titles are mostly dying on everything anyway. Don't forget that many, many games are multiplatform these days in general, and they don't all suck on PC! That doesn't even consider stuff like L4D/2, Dragon Age, etc. that were very PC-centric releases but multiplatform.

The games that are dumbed down are games like MW2 and BC2, which have a rich PC heritage but are "streamlined" for consoles. Streamlined is just a really polite way of saying dumbed down. Many of those games still play best on the PC though. Bad Company 2 is a good example of a game where obvious sacrifices have been made in its design but it still feels perfectly at home on the PC. The same goes for games like Oblivion and Fallout 3, and even games like Mass Effect and Batman shine on the PC.

PC gaming is fine.

bleachedsmiles

Commented on 2010-07-30 12:53:32 In reply to GriftGFX

yeah Grift, you've kinda missed the point there through your over sensitivity of somebody "attacking" your beloved PC.

I'm not at all saying PC gaming is doomed.. i think i made that pretty clear. But you're nieve if you think consoles are bringing pc gamers less of an experience..rather than garenteeing a consistant shot in the heart to PC gaming. Like you said, most games are multiplatform now (especially previous PC exclusive franchises), they are so because consoles are simply where the money is.

Hows MW2 dumbed down over the original PC exclusive call of duty? If you're sighting kill/death streaks ..thats simply the series evolving, not "dumbing down". It may make the game more accessable, but it's new gameplay elements. You'd only complain if we were still offered the same carbon copy game as COD.

How was Bad company 2 dumbing down? bad company has a console heritage. not a pc one. Battlefields branched off. Be thankful the PC got offered the game this time.

Also, i was talking about AAA PC exclusives. Exclusives are dieing out in general correct, but it takes far less effert to rattle off a few console AAA exclusive game names in the 2year time span between crysis and sc2.

Like i said, consoles arent bringing PC gamers less of an experience, they're garenteeing the format stays alive as a gaming platform. You can cry about dumbing down all you want.. it's not stopped 99% of pc games having "quick save" options in them long before consoles stole developers preference.

In reply to

yeah  Grift, you've kinda missed the point there through your over sensitivity of somebody "attacking" your beloved PC.

I'm not at all saying PC gaming is doomed.. i think i made that pretty clear. But you're nieve if you think consoles are bringing pc gamers less of an experience..rather than garenteeing a consistant shot in the heart to PC gaming. Like you said, most games are multiplatform now (especially previous PC exclusive franchises), they are so because consoles are simply where the money is.

Hows MW2 dumbed down over the original PC exclusive call of duty? If you're sighting kill/death streaks ..thats simply the series evolving, not "dumbing down". It may make the game more accessable, but it's new gameplay elements. You'd only complain if we were still offered the same carbon copy game as COD.

How was Bad company 2 dumbing down? bad company has a console heritage. not a pc one. Battlefields branched off. Be thankful the PC got offered the game this time.

Also, i was talking about AAA PC exclusives. Exclusives are dieing out in general correct, but it takes far less effert to rattle off a few console AAA exclusive game names in the 2year time span between crysis and sc2.

Like i said, consoles arent bringing PC gamers less of an experience, they're garenteeing the format stays alive as a gaming platform. You can cry about dumbing down all you want.. it's not stopped 99% of pc games having "quick save" options in them long before consoles stole developers preference.

Frozpot

Commented on 2010-07-30 17:44:50

I still think "dumbed-down" is a misnomer as well. I'll take stream-lined control(which, by the way, is much smarter from a design and development standpoint- any baffoon can map buttons to a keyboard) anyday over something with a zillion buttons. I think it's the sim people that talk about dumbed-down, really. You could argue that to a point, but Sims often aren't very fun, and don't often offer a true simulation( military sims come to mind, as the AI and even the people you face, just about never put you in a situation that is truely realistic).

In reply to

GriftGFX

Commented on 2010-07-30 22:46:09 In reply to Frozpot

Posted by bleachedsmiles

Hows MW2 dumbed down over the original PC exclusive call of duty? If you're sighting kill/death streaks ..thats simply the series evolving, not "dumbing down". It may make the game more accessable, but it's new gameplay elements. You'd only complain if we were still offered the same carbon copy game as COD.

Easy answer: removed movement to satisfy simpler controllers; implemented systems to make the game easier for less skilled players, etc.

How was Bad company 2 dumbing down? bad company has a console heritage. not a pc one. Battlefields branched off. Be thankful the PC got offered the game this time.

The Bad Company franchise is a dumbed down version of Battlefield 2. I know it split off in a different direction, but thanks to the lack of a real Battlefield sequel in the last five years, it's easy to see Bad Company 2 as the only real Battlefield game this generation. It is absolutely dumbed down, or streamlined and simplified if you prefer those kinder terms. Hopefully Battlefield 3 is still a reality, and still a PC exclusive title, because games like BC2 and Medal of Honor don't give me a lot of hope for the future of the genre. I like Bad Company 2, too, and I am thankful for what it's worth. The game actually sold extremely well on the PC, so that gives me hope for the future of the franchise back where it belongs.

Consoles aren't giving PC gamers better experiences, only a bigger volume of experiences. The idea that games have to be console ports to produce reasonable income is a bit of a misnomer too, since Bad Company 2 actually outperformed console versions on the PC and continues to do so. And just wait until you see Starcraft 2's ridiculous sales. I know that's not the norm, but it's an oversimplification of things to just state that console games make more money, especially since many games continue to fail on every platform. I won't try to deny that the averages are better on consoles though, that would just be stupid.

I have to disagree that consoles really embolden the PC as a games platform. I think this is mostly (and ironically) Microsoft's fault though. The best hope for PC-centric experiences that make proper use of the advantages of the platform come from indies and smaller Euro devs. And Valve.

And yes, Bleached, I do love PC gaming. That doesn't prevent me from enjoying my consoles too though. I've been playing consoles for as long as I've been playing computer games, and some of my favorite genres are arcade inspired, which makes them feel perfectly at home on the Xbox. I'm also most looking forward to Halo Reach this year over any other title, which is something that would drive most of my PC-only friends a little crazy. They just don't know what they're missing.

Posted by Frozpot

I still think "dumbed-down" is a misnomer as well. I'll take stream-lined control(which, by the way, is much smarter from a design and development standpoint- any baffoon can map buttons to a keyboard) anyday over something with a zillion buttons. I think it's the sim people that talk about dumbed-down, really. You could argue that to a point, but Sims often aren't very fun, and don't often offer a true simulation( military sims come to mind, as the AI and even the people you face, just about never put you in a situation that is truely realistic).

I don't like milsims at all. Take BF2 for example though, which is hardly a simulator, but would also be very difficult to replicate faithfully on consoles. The game we got instead is still very good, and I won't deny that either, but it doesn't have the depth or variety of gameplay that its predecessors had. I actually greatly prefer "arcade" shooters. Team Fortress 2, COD4, etc.

In reply to

[quote=bleachedsmiles]Hows MW2 dumbed down over the original PC exclusive call of duty? If you're sighting kill/death streaks ..thats simply the series evolving, not "dumbing down". It may make the game more accessable, but it's new gameplay elements. You'd only complain if we were still offered the same carbon copy game as COD.[/quote]

Easy answer: removed movement to satisfy simpler controllers; implemented systems to make the game easier for less skilled players, etc.

[quote]How was Bad company 2 dumbing down? bad company has a console heritage. not a pc one. Battlefields branched off. Be thankful the PC got offered the game this time.[/quote]

The Bad Company franchise is a dumbed down version of Battlefield 2. I know it split off in a different direction, but thanks to the lack of a real Battlefield sequel in the last five years, it's easy to see Bad Company 2 as the only real Battlefield game this generation. It is [i]absolutely[/i] dumbed down, or streamlined and simplified if you prefer those kinder terms. Hopefully Battlefield 3 is still a reality, and still a PC exclusive title, because games like BC2 and Medal of Honor don't give me a lot of hope for the future of the genre. I like Bad Company 2, too, and I am thankful for what it's worth. The game actually sold extremely well on the PC, so that gives me hope for the future of the franchise back where it belongs.

Consoles aren't giving PC gamers better experiences, only a bigger volume of experiences. The idea that games have to be console ports to produce reasonable income is a bit of a misnomer too, since Bad Company 2 actually outperformed console versions on the PC and continues to do so. And just wait until you see Starcraft 2's ridiculous sales. I know that's not the norm, but it's an oversimplification of things to just state that console games make more money, especially since many games continue to fail on every platform. I won't try to deny that the averages are better on consoles though, that would just be stupid.

I have to disagree that consoles really embolden the PC as a games platform. I think this is mostly (and ironically) Microsoft's fault though. The best hope for PC-centric experiences that make proper use of the advantages of the platform come from indies and smaller Euro devs. And Valve.

And yes, Bleached, I do love PC gaming. That doesn't prevent me from enjoying my consoles too though. I've been playing consoles for as long as I've been playing computer games, and some of my favorite genres are arcade inspired, which makes them feel perfectly at home on the Xbox. I'm also most looking forward to Halo Reach this year over any other title, which is something that would drive most of my PC-only friends a little crazy. They just [i]don't know what they're missing[/i].

[quote=Frozpot]I still think "dumbed-down" is a misnomer as well.  I'll take stream-lined control(which, by the way, is much smarter from a design and development standpoint- any baffoon can map buttons to a keyboard) anyday over something with a zillion buttons.  I think it's the sim people that talk about dumbed-down, really.  You could argue that to a point, but Sims often aren't very fun, and don't often offer a true simulation( military sims come to mind, as the AI and even the people you face, just about never put you in a situation that is truely realistic).[/quote]

I don't like milsims at all. Take BF2 for example though, which is hardly a simulator, but would also be very difficult to replicate faithfully on consoles. The game we got instead is still very good, and I won't deny that either, but it doesn't have the depth or variety of gameplay that its predecessors had. I actually greatly prefer "arcade" shooters. Team Fortress 2, COD4, etc.

bleachedsmiles

Commented on 2010-07-31 01:41:25

bad company 2 sold more on PC than it did on consoles? you're going to have to link me to the sales figures on that as i've not read anything on it..but it certainly goes against the norm.

You say they removed movement to satisfy simplier controls for MW2 when compared to the original Cod in its pc exclusive form. I dont understand this. I would think that controls have been stream lined to cope more with a greater pace of narrative, and AI enemys thrown at you.

PC gamers are getting better gaming experiences through their association with consoles than without them. Multiplatform games for example can afford such high production values because of the money brought it from console sales. You can compare this to the production values of those games that are still PC exclusive.

In reply to

GriftGFX

Commented on 2010-07-31 12:32:28 In reply to bleachedsmiles

There's no specific PC sales data so far as I'm aware (not on most retail charts), but:

DICE associate producer Barrie Tingle has revealed that at the moment, during the week of the game's retail release, more people are playing the PC version of the game than are playing the 360 or PS3 editions (though not as many as both combined).

http://kotaku.com/5487038/battlefield-bad-company-...

Global PC Statistics

Players at bfbcs:
1 690 239

Compared to 1.89 million on Xbox and 1.5 million on PS3. Not the PC crushing sales that everyone talks about.

Posted by bleachedsmiles

You say they removed movement to satisfy simplier controls for MW2 when compared to the original Cod in its pc exclusive form. I dont understand this. I would think that controls have been stream lined to cope more with a greater pace of narrative, and AI enemys thrown at you.

Bullshit. There's no lean, for example, in COD2 or COD4 on the Xbox, yet it's in both games on the PC. That feature, among others, was removed in MW2--along with higher player counts, and mods to rebalance the game for proper competition. The PC version of MW2 is absolutely dumbed down and crippled compared to every previous version of the game on the platform, including Treyarch's World At War. A greater pace? Better AI, or higher enemy counts? No, no, no. They don't exist. Anyone who claims that the PC version of COD hasn't suffered because of console concessions doesn't know what they're talking about.

Posted by bleachedsmiles

PC gamers are getting better gaming experiences through their association with consoles than without them.

Some of (arguably all of) the best PC gaming experiences are the ones designed for the platform, and not console ports. And PC franchises that were previously PC exclusives that have moved into the multiplatform arena have mostly suffered.

In reply to

There's no specific PC sales data so far as I'm aware (not on most retail charts), but:

[quote]DICE associate producer Barrie Tingle has revealed that at the moment, during the week of the game's retail release, more people are playing the PC version of the game than are playing the 360 or PS3 editions (though not as many as both combined).[/quote]

http://kotaku.com/5487038/battlefield-bad-company-2-players-prefer-pc-to-console

[quote]Global PC Statistics

Players at bfbcs:
    1 690 239[/quote]

Compared to 1.89 million on Xbox and 1.5 million on PS3. Not the PC crushing sales that everyone talks about.

[quote=bleachedsmiles]You say they removed movement to satisfy simplier controls for MW2 when compared to the original Cod in its pc exclusive form. I dont understand this. I would think that controls have been stream lined to cope more with a greater pace of narrative, and AI enemys thrown at you.[/quote]

Bullshit. There's no lean, for example, in COD2 or COD4 on the Xbox, yet it's in both games on the PC. That feature, among others, was removed in MW2--along with higher player counts, and mods to rebalance the game for proper competition. The PC version of MW2 is absolutely dumbed down and crippled compared to every previous version of the game on the platform, including Treyarch's World At War. A greater pace? Better AI, or higher enemy counts? No, no, no. They don't exist. Anyone who claims that the PC version of COD [i]hasn't[/i] suffered because of console concessions doesn't know what they're talking about.

[quote=bleachedsmiles]PC gamers are getting better gaming experiences through their association with consoles than without them.[/quote]

Some of (arguably all of) the best PC gaming experiences are the ones designed for the platform, and not console ports. And PC franchises that were previously PC exclusives that have moved into the multiplatform arena have mostly suffered.