Well I normally love first person shooters such at this but the MP beta was absolute garbage. After I went to the Battleborn beta immediately afterwards it hit me even harder how frustrating it was. The fun factor was almost zero. The demon power ups were way too OP, with one hit kills and difficult to stay away from on the smallish maps. Snipers took over the games usually since all the other weapons were weak as hell, which just isn't right in a Doom game, making it feel even more cheap and frustrating. The SP may be pretty good judging by reviews, but the garbage MP will keep me from dropping money on the game until it's half price or lower in a bargain bin.
Well, besides sucking at MP (and not caring: kiss off Megido), I expected the MP to be a bit faster paced than what it is. I had pictured at least the speed of Unreal Tournament, but maybe my memory fails me (which is probably has) as to how fast that game was. Either way, these time-burners are not meant to be taken seriously. It's get in get out mindless gibbing.
UT is slower than Quake but faster than Doom if you put work into it. You have to dodge spam like a demon, or dodge/slide spam if you're playing UT4. It's a better, more "pure" arena experience, but it's also a lot rougher around the edges in its current pre-alpha state and probably a little too hardcore for the modern FPS audience... which is pretty terrible at playing FPS games. If you can't dominate pubs... maybe play something else ;)
UT is harder and more rewarding. Which is the way it should be.
I felt like Doom's MP is serviceable but very forgettable. A solid OKAY. But I don't really know where the expectation for more came from. Id hasn't made a good multiplayer game since Quake 3. Why did people expect sudden success?
Heck.. I'm shocked that Doom SP turned out as good as it did.
After playing 2 matches i can already tell the super shotgun is OP. I started using it in my 2nd match and kept destroying everyone who didn't have it.
From the MP videos i've seen it seems like swapping between regular shotty and super eliminates reload time and thus, its a retarded strong combo. Still haven't even touched the multiplayer myself though.
Commented on 2016-05-21 20:27:49 In reply to Megido
Posted by Megido
From the MP videos i've seen it seems like swapping between regular shotty and super eliminates reload time and thus, its a retarded strong combo. Still haven't even touched the multiplayer myself though.
Can you reload cancel by quick cycling anyway? It might not matter what combo you use. Reload canceling is a staple of the genre. Finding complementary combos and abusing the grenade and melee systems.. feels like a cheap Halo hybrid.
I guess that's the problem with games like Doom. They don't really do their own thing so much as throw several trendy bits of game design into a blender. A lot of games seem to be designed like this.
I'm pretty sure id were the creators of all of that to begin with. If anyone has taken anything it would be from id... I see it as a perk and I'd find it unusual if this weren't in the genre.
Id didn't make the multiplayer component of Doom. Certain Affinity did. A Halo developer. That's why it feels like shitty Halo.
And.. not really. Id didn't invent perks, or load-outs, or any of the other misguided modern FPS tropes you find in Doom MP. The tight relationship between melee/equipment/and your load-out weapons feels distinctly Halo-like. Id didn't even pioneer Y axis aiming or headshots. And they didn't pioneer alt-fire. Doom MP literally has UT's translocator. The game has a lot of external (and sometimes very modern) influences.
Id hasn't made a good multiplayer game since Quake 3 Arena. The genre has changed a lot since then. A lot of that modern influence can be found in this game. Id deserves a lot of credit for creating the arena genre with Quake, and for introducing network deathmatch to many gamers with the original Doom.. but they haven't been masters of multiplayer for decades.
I don't think it's terrible.. I just don't think it's great.
You misinterpreted what I wrote. I believe they invented the reload cut. It was in the 90s. You should see that as a perk of the genre is an analogy with no regards to contemporary "perks" you pay for, or have to equip or what have you... UT followed suit and I can't remember if they got rid of it in the others or Half-life, but that's besides the point: it's to be expected and doesn't surprise me.
As for whatever the games subjective problems may be, I don't know. I don't believe it's a game meant to be taken seriously, so I'm not. I think some people have an issue with it simply because they feel the type of play is dated or irrelevant somehow.
I didn't mean to connect your use of the word perk to the perks in the game. I just mentioned perks because that's one of several modern tropes that Doom borrows. And there's nothing really wrong with that.. I just don't find it particularly inspired. And it's not stuff that comes from Doom or Quake's heritage. I don't think it's as dated as it should be. Unreal Tournament 4 is a better arena game because it plays more directly to its roots.
But that's just my opinion.. and I think you're right. I don't think it's meant to be taken seriously. They put more effort into it than Rage or Doom 3 which is commendable, and there's fun to be had there. It's just not the part of the game that's setting the world on fire.
Commented on 2016-05-22 17:35:42 In reply to GriftGFX
Posted by GriftGFX
Id didn't make the multiplayer component of Doom. Certain Affinity did. A Halo developer. That's why it feels like shitty Halo.
This caught me eye. While I don't believe Doom's multiplayer is at the level of a Halo game's multiplayer - though I haven't dabbled in either, do you think that outside of Microsoft wanting Halo to be Xbox exclusive, that maybe they don't feel very confident in Halo's multiplayer being succesful with the PC community?
I don't know much about multiplayer communities, but after reading that sentence I started to wonder that since Doom's multiplayer is very similar to Halo's - according to those that played both - and the bad reception it got, specially on PC, if Halo's multiplayer wouldn't face the same criticism.
I have no reason to suspect that. There are plenty of PC games that are worse than Halo. I wasn't really ragging on Halo. Plus.. Halo is a huge brand. Throw Microsoft's marketing power behind that and you'd probably have a pretty big hit. Microsoft is a bigger barrier to Halo's success on PC than Halo is :)
I wouldn't call them VERY similar.. I might have overstated that. But you can feel Certain Affinity's hand and their experience. I also don't know that a more typically oldschool arena shooter would have been met with a more welcoming response. People are quick to forget that Quake 4 tried to emulate Quake 3 and no one played that either. And as good as UT4 is.. there's no indication yet that it's going to be a smash hit.
Commented on 2016-05-23 01:06:42 In reply to GriftGFX
Posted by GriftGFX
I have no reason to suspect that. There are plenty of PC games that are worse than Halo. I wasn't really ragging on Halo. Plus.. Halo is a huge brand. Throw Microsoft's marketing power behind that and you'd probably have a pretty big hit. Microsoft is a bigger barrier to Halo's success on PC than Halo is :)
I wouldn't call them VERY similar.. I might have overstated that. But you can feel Certain Affinity's hand and their experience. I also don't know that a more typically oldschool arena shooter would have been met with a more welcoming response. People are quick to forget that Quake 4 tried to emulate Quake 3 and no one played that either. And as good as UT4 is.. there's no indication yet that it's going to be a smash hit.
Arena shooters feels like a dead genre even though I don't want it to be due to personal nostalgic reasons. There have been attempts from different devs to revive it like Shootmania that tried to establish itself in the e-sport scene and failed, another pretty mediocre one called Nexuiz but it every single one seems to die out fairly quickly. The interest to play them is just not there from multiplayer fps players for some reason.
I would like to try Reflex but I'm unsure if it's the type of game that will be stuck in Early Access limbo forever.
I feel the same way about UT, but it's free and you should try that if you haven't :)
That also has a meager population. There are literally a few games running at any given time. Luckily.. that's still satisfying. And who knows. Maybe that it's pre-alpha and mostly supported by users and word of mouth means there's still an opportunity for Unreal to grow in the future. The user content and user development model of Unreal Tournement is very appealing to me too. I think Epic may be on to something.. but it's not going to sell itself.
There's more to courting an audience than refined gameplay.. maybe someone can do it.
Commented on 2016-05-24 02:57:03 In reply to Tinks
Posted by Tinks
I'd be interested in a reskinned Unreal Tournament 99' personally :D
I'm curious to try this multiplayer for myself though. There seem to be quite a few others saying it's actually pretty good?
I really don't have a problem with it. I loved UT99... and CTF, oh my. If they brought that environment, atmosphere and gameplay back I'd probably wet myself.
I never played Halo, so I can't really compare all of that. I remember seeing it for the original xbox and just thought it was a UT clone and never had any interest.
Isn't the new UT flying under the radar despite a lot of people "asking" for it? I heard the servers weren't very populated. shame.
I don't have a gaming pc but if i had i would support it.
Commented on 2016-05-24 22:00:14 In reply to syder
Posted by syder
Isn't the new UT flying under the radar despite a lot of people "asking" for it? I heard the servers weren't very populated. shame.
I don't have a gaming pc but if i had i would support it.
Wait time for games is very short at least, 10-20 seconds.
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All comments (35)
Commented on 2016-05-20 15:22:37
Commented on 2016-05-20 22:31:35
Commented on 2016-05-21 01:52:43
Commented on 2016-05-21 07:16:31
Commented on 2016-05-21 08:19:00UT is harder and more rewarding. Which is the way it should be.
I felt like Doom's MP is serviceable but very forgettable. A solid OKAY. But I don't really know where the expectation for more came from. Id hasn't made a good multiplayer game since Quake 3. Why did people expect sudden success?
Heck.. I'm shocked that Doom SP turned out as good as it did.
Commented on 2016-05-21 14:19:53
Commented on 2016-05-21 15:26:12
Commented on 2016-05-21 20:27:49 In reply to MegidoI guess that's the problem with games like Doom. They don't really do their own thing so much as throw several trendy bits of game design into a blender. A lot of games seem to be designed like this.
Commented on 2016-05-22 02:15:21
Commented on 2016-05-22 03:16:31And.. not really. Id didn't invent perks, or load-outs, or any of the other misguided modern FPS tropes you find in Doom MP. The tight relationship between melee/equipment/and your load-out weapons feels distinctly Halo-like. Id didn't even pioneer Y axis aiming or headshots. And they didn't pioneer alt-fire. Doom MP literally has UT's translocator. The game has a lot of external (and sometimes very modern) influences.
Id hasn't made a good multiplayer game since Quake 3 Arena. The genre has changed a lot since then. A lot of that modern influence can be found in this game. Id deserves a lot of credit for creating the arena genre with Quake, and for introducing network deathmatch to many gamers with the original Doom.. but they haven't been masters of multiplayer for decades.
I don't think it's terrible.. I just don't think it's great.
Commented on 2016-05-22 09:37:36As for whatever the games subjective problems may be, I don't know. I don't believe it's a game meant to be taken seriously, so I'm not. I think some people have an issue with it simply because they feel the type of play is dated or irrelevant somehow.
Commented on 2016-05-22 10:35:46But that's just my opinion.. and I think you're right. I don't think it's meant to be taken seriously. They put more effort into it than Rage or Doom 3 which is commendable, and there's fun to be had there. It's just not the part of the game that's setting the world on fire.
Commented on 2016-05-22 17:35:42 In reply to GriftGFXI don't know much about multiplayer communities, but after reading that sentence I started to wonder that since Doom's multiplayer is very similar to Halo's - according to those that played both - and the bad reception it got, specially on PC, if Halo's multiplayer wouldn't face the same criticism.
Commented on 2016-05-22 20:05:02I wouldn't call them VERY similar.. I might have overstated that. But you can feel Certain Affinity's hand and their experience. I also don't know that a more typically oldschool arena shooter would have been met with a more welcoming response. People are quick to forget that Quake 4 tried to emulate Quake 3 and no one played that either. And as good as UT4 is.. there's no indication yet that it's going to be a smash hit.
Commented on 2016-05-23 01:06:42 In reply to GriftGFXI wouldn't call them VERY similar.. I might have overstated that. But you can feel Certain Affinity's hand and their experience. I also don't know that a more typically oldschool arena shooter would have been met with a more welcoming response. People are quick to forget that Quake 4 tried to emulate Quake 3 and no one played that either. And as good as UT4 is.. there's no indication yet that it's going to be a smash hit.
I would like to try Reflex but I'm unsure if it's the type of game that will be stuck in Early Access limbo forever.
Commented on 2016-05-23 04:12:26That also has a meager population. There are literally a few games running at any given time. Luckily.. that's still satisfying. And who knows. Maybe that it's pre-alpha and mostly supported by users and word of mouth means there's still an opportunity for Unreal to grow in the future. The user content and user development model of Unreal Tournement is very appealing to me too. I think Epic may be on to something.. but it's not going to sell itself.
There's more to courting an audience than refined gameplay.. maybe someone can do it.
Commented on 2016-05-23 04:16:54I'm curious to try this multiplayer for myself though. There seem to be quite a few others saying it's actually pretty good?
Commented on 2016-05-23 04:25:52 In reply to TinksAnd yea.. give it a shot. It's okay-ish. You should form your own opinions.
Commented on 2016-05-24 02:57:03 In reply to TinksI'm curious to try this multiplayer for myself though. There seem to be quite a few others saying it's actually pretty good?
I never played Halo, so I can't really compare all of that. I remember seeing it for the original xbox and just thought it was a UT clone and never had any interest.
Commented on 2016-05-24 03:47:45 In reply to crookedmindBut it's a more demanding game than Doom and does kinda take itself more seriously.
Commented on 2016-05-24 21:49:45I don't have a gaming pc but if i had i would support it.
Commented on 2016-05-24 22:00:14 In reply to syderI don't have a gaming pc but if i had i would support it.
Commented on 2016-05-24 22:07:09 In reply to syderBut it's early. Maybe they can do some audience building later. Still worth checking out.
Commented on 2016-05-25 09:09:16If I can recover my account I'm going to download this if possible.
Commented on 2016-05-25 09:10:51