It's not a dream, Dreams is now available

unknownuser0001

Commented on 2020-02-14 12:15:59

No less than 4 years after its first showing at E3 2015

Wasn't it at the PS4 reveal in 2013 February?

In reply to

capnkimo

Commented on 2020-02-14 12:16:53

looking forward to playing Art's Dream in PSVR, although i'm assuming it won't be ready until PS5.

In reply to

Driftwood

Commented on 2020-02-14 12:44:53 In reply to unknownuser0001

The official announcement was during E3 2015. I edited the news text so it's more thorough.

In reply to

Sdarts

Commented on 2020-02-14 16:51:27

I hope this takes off, but a commenter on EuroGamer brought many excellent points. While I believe Dreams goal is to make developing games or experiences, if saying game is too much, as easy as possible, it will still take a very long time for people to get great at it - hundreds and maybe even thousands of hours.

With that much time and effort going into learning how to develop games in Dreams, which is a closed platform on a single system, with no options to monetize your investment, whatever you create is not really yours, no option to use most of that acquired knowledge outside and the fact that years from now, even if it's a very long time, when Sony decides to shut down the servers, you're stuck with something that's not very helpful.

While if someone were to invest that time and effort into using either Unreal Engine, Unity or even CryEngine, not only would they have knowledge that they could use to work by themselves as indie developers, as well as work for big companies. They could also sell their games, it would be multiplatform, they would have complete control of how to monetize it, and those game engines will exist and keep evolving for decades.

This isn't an attack on the game, I have seen a lot of great creations with Dreams already even when it was in Early Access, but those points are absolutely valid. Unless I'm missing something, outside of not having to learn how to program/code games, there's no advantage to Dreams over Unreal Engine, Unity or CryEngine.

In reply to

I hope this takes off, but a commenter on EuroGamer brought many excellent points. While I believe Dreams goal is to make developing games or experiences, if saying game is too much, as easy as possible, it will still take a very long time for people to get great at it - hundreds and maybe even thousands of hours.

With that much time and effort going into learning how to develop games in Dreams, which is a closed platform on a single system, with no options to monetize your investment, whatever you create is not really yours, no option to use most of that acquired knowledge outside and the fact that years from now, even if it's a very long time, when Sony decides to shut down the servers, you're stuck with something that's not very helpful.

While if someone were to invest that time and effort into using either Unreal Engine, Unity or even CryEngine, not only would they have knowledge that they could use to work by themselves as indie developers, as well as work for big companies. They could also sell their games, it would be multiplatform, they would have complete control of how to monetize it, and those game engines will exist and keep evolving for decades.

This isn't an attack on the game, I have seen a lot of great creations with Dreams already even when it was in Early Access, but those points are absolutely valid. Unless I'm missing something, outside of not having to learn how to program/code games, there's no advantage to Dreams over Unreal Engine, Unity or CryEngine.

Athens

Commented on 2020-02-14 18:40:39 In reply to Sdarts

The advantage of Dreams over actual production frameworks is that it's a powerful engine disguised as a $40 videogame, accessible to someone who might not have looked into an Unreal or a Unity - or C4D or Maya or Audition (because it's more than just a game maker). Dreams should be looked at as an entry point, an unconventional one, but the most robust of any I've seen in this mainstream form. You can learn real world fundamentals and perhaps most importantly, how important it is to network and collaborate with other creators. I'm not saying anything at all to dispute the argument that using professional tools is the better option, I'm just speaking to why I expect Dreams to be a major contributor to future creatives that might not have made it through the traditional learning paths, and that in itself is an advantage.

There's also an argument to be made that not everyone wants a production solution to export and monetize their work. Some people just want to create, no strings attached. I'm in the motion design/animation field and I've found that Dreams is a really good tool for animatics/prototypes. The VR component should be a huge improvement in that category too - making it similar to a Medium or Quill from Oculus.

In reply to

The advantage of Dreams over actual production frameworks is that it's a powerful engine disguised as a $40 videogame, accessible to someone who might not have looked into an Unreal or a Unity - or C4D or Maya or Audition (because it's more than just a game maker). Dreams should be looked at as an entry point, an unconventional one, but the most robust of any I've seen in this mainstream form. You can learn real world fundamentals and perhaps most importantly, how important it is to network and collaborate with other creators. I'm not saying anything at all to dispute the argument that using professional tools is the better option, I'm just speaking to why I expect Dreams to be a major contributor to future creatives that might not have made it through the traditional learning paths, and that in itself is an advantage.

There's also an argument to be made that not everyone wants a production solution to export and monetize their work. Some people just want to create, no strings attached. I'm in the motion design/animation field and I've found that Dreams is a really good tool for animatics/prototypes. The VR component should be a huge improvement in that category too - making it similar to a Medium or Quill from Oculus.

nostradamus

Commented on 2020-02-14 20:15:20

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-02-11-insi...

Too bad sony ****ed up the pc modding team of little big planet, giving hopes and cease n' desist them into hell and beyond after all that work. When Dreams is dead and burried, at least MM in a leash shouldn't give no blessings to fans if their masters are still a bunch of suits.

In reply to

Sdarts

Commented on 2020-02-15 01:00:17 In reply to Athens

Posted by Athens

The advantage of Dreams over actual production frameworks is that it's a powerful engine disguised as a $40 videogame, accessible to someone who might not have looked into an Unreal or a Unity - or C4D or Maya or Audition (because it's more than just a game maker). Dreams should be looked at as an entry point, an unconventional one, but the most robust of any I've seen in this mainstream form. You can learn real world fundamentals and perhaps most importantly, how important it is to network and collaborate with other creators. I'm not saying anything at all to dispute the argument that using professional tools is the better option, I'm just speaking to why I expect Dreams to be a major contributor to future creatives that might not have made it through the traditional learning paths, and that in itself is an advantage.

There's also an argument to be made that not everyone wants a production solution to export and monetize their work. Some people just want to create, no strings attached. I'm in the motion design/animation field and I've found that Dreams is a really good tool for animatics/prototypes. The VR component should be a huge improvement in that category too - making it similar to a Medium or Quill from Oculus.

Thanks for your very detailed response. I hadn't thought of Dreams as an entry point for people who might feel real game engines are very daunting. In a way, it could do what modding has done in the sense that it made many people interested in modding games become developers after they entered the modding community and started messing with a game's engine and assets.

Albeit in Dreams case, it could reach a far bigger audience. It will depend on how well Media Molecule supports Dreams with new features and changes to things that the community end up having problems with. As well as the speed they update the game, because if it takes years to release major updates, I can see many people moving away from it if the issues they encounter are too frustrating.

I say this because I have read some people gave up on Dreams because of issues they had with it that caused them a lot of frustration, so supporting and updating the game will be essential. I hope Media Molecule succeeds, this could bring more fresh talent to the gaming industry.

In reply to

[quote=Athens]The advantage of Dreams over actual production frameworks is that it's a powerful engine disguised as a $40 videogame, accessible to someone who might not have looked into an Unreal or a Unity - or C4D or Maya or Audition (because it's more than just a game maker). Dreams should be looked at as an entry point, an unconventional one, but the most robust of any I've seen in this mainstream form. You can learn real world fundamentals and perhaps most importantly, how important it is to network and collaborate with other creators. I'm not saying anything at all to dispute the argument that using professional tools is the better option, I'm just speaking to why I expect Dreams to be a major contributor to future creatives that might not have made it through the traditional learning paths, and that in itself is an advantage.

There's also an argument to be made that not everyone wants a production solution to export and monetize their work. Some people just want to create, no strings attached. I'm in the motion design/animation field and I've found that Dreams is a really good tool for animatics/prototypes. The VR component should be a huge improvement in that category too - making it similar to a Medium or Quill from Oculus.[/quote]
Thanks for your very detailed response. I hadn't thought of Dreams as an entry point for people who might feel real game engines are very daunting. In a way, it could do what modding has done in the sense that it made many people interested in modding games become developers after they entered the modding community and started messing with a game's engine and assets.

Albeit in Dreams case, it could reach a far bigger audience. It will depend on how well Media Molecule supports Dreams with new features and changes to things that the community end up having problems with. As well as the speed they update the game, because if it takes years to release major updates, I can see many people moving away from it if the issues they encounter are too frustrating.

I say this because I have read some people gave up on Dreams because of issues they had with it that caused them a lot of frustration, so supporting and updating the game will be essential. I hope Media Molecule succeeds, this could bring more fresh talent to the gaming industry.

GunsnSwords

Commented on 2020-02-15 07:48:19

Posted by Sdarts
While if someone were to invest that time and effort into using either Unreal Engine, Unity or even CryEngine, not only would they have knowledge that they could use to work by themselves as indie developers, as well as work for big companies. They could also sell their games, it would be multiplatform, they would have complete control of how to monetize it, and those game engines will exist and keep evolving for decades.

very much on point. +1

------------------------------------------------

Dreams looks interesting from a casual perspective, but from a more ambitious creator perspective i would say it may have some deal breaking factors. the issue remains with the long term aspects of how their time is spent with it.

i think it's best that creators should get acquainted with reading the "E.U.L.A." for any tool first. see what they like and don't like. then make their decisions on that fork in the road. I remember countless times working hard on some of my projects and then making the mistake of not reading their EULAs. that some tools are not for commercialization, patreons, or any publicity to receive funding.

For the moment Unity, UE4 and Cry Engine are the most friendly for content creation and to also be successful (or somewhat successful). even despite being a casual artist that might not care about being very successful. at least with these programs you have the option of being rewarded in the form of your choosing. for your time and efforts.

In reply to

[quote]Posted by [b]Sdarts[/b]
While if someone were to invest that time and effort into using either Unreal Engine, Unity or even CryEngine, not only would they have knowledge that they could use to work by themselves as indie developers, as well as work for big companies. They could also sell their games, it would be multiplatform, they would have complete control of how to monetize it, and those game engines will exist and keep evolving for decades.[/quote]

very much on point. +1

------------------------------------------------

Dreams looks interesting from a casual perspective, but from a more ambitious creator perspective i would say it may have some deal breaking factors. the issue remains with the long term aspects of how their time is spent with it.

i think it's best that creators should get acquainted with reading the "E.U.L.A." for any tool first. see what they like and don't like. then make their decisions on that fork in the road. I remember countless times working hard on some of my projects and then making the mistake of not reading their EULAs. that some tools are not for commercialization, patreons, or any publicity to receive funding.

For the moment Unity, UE4 and Cry Engine are the most friendly for content creation and to also be successful (or somewhat successful). even despite being a casual artist that might not care about being very successful. at least with these programs you have the option of being rewarded in the form of your choosing. for your time and efforts.

MrWhite

Commented on 2020-02-15 17:56:26

I think some of you are really overestimating what this is.

In reply to

SyberGTX

Commented on 2020-02-15 21:55:54

Posted by MrWhite

I think some of you are really overestimating what this is.

well on the basic level it allows gamers to play and create content for fun. on the enthusiast level, seemingly it can reach a higher quality bar matching and exceeding some indie games.

from what i read from gamers that have tried Dreams, it does have a learning curve for scripting. and that gamers do need to learn first for game making. depending on how advance your game is and it's scale. so you could very well say Dreams is 3/4ths UE4 and Unity at their current difficulty. while at the cost of paying $40 and minus the ability to collect some form of compensation be it small time or commercially.

currently as it stands an artists can take as little as 3-4 months of learning to script for UE4 or Unity and publish a demo. which can be eligible for either a patreon, kickstarter or a dev grant.

In reply to