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Since 7004 DaysInstead of selling a external HDDVD they could have it intergrated and keep the price. I don't give a sh*t about pricedrops. It's the gaming that's important. That's why PS3 is going to defeat XBOX 360 next year and the year after until another next-gen consoles gets released. Then probably discs will have 300 GB space but Microsoft will stick with intergrated HDDVD. Idiots !! =/
Since 7706 Days
Since 7004 DaysAn example of a procedural texture:
/* From the RenderMan Companion p.355 */
/* Listing 16.19 Blue marble surface shader*/
/*
* blue_marble(): a marble stone texture in shades of blue
* surface
*/
blue_marble(
float Ks = .4,
Kd = .6,
Ka = .1,
roughness = .1,
txtscale = 1;
color specularcolor = 1)
{
point PP; /* scaled point in shader space */
float csp; /* color spline parameter */
point Nf; /* forward-facing normal */
point V; /* for specular() */
float pixelsize, twice, scale, weight, turbulence;
/* Obtain a forward-facing normal for lighting calculations. */
Nf = faceforward( normalize(N), I);
V = normalize(-I);
/*
* Compute "turbulence" a la [PERLIN85]. Turbulence is a sum of
* "noise" components with a "fractal" 1/f power spectrum. It gives the
* visual impression of turbulent fluid flow (for example, as in the
* formation of blue_marble from molten color splines!). Use the
* surface element area in texture space to control the number of
* noise components so that the frequency content is appropriate
* to the scale. This prevents aliasing of the texture.
*/
PP = transform("shader", P) * txtscale;
pixelsize = sqrt(area(PP));
twice = 2 * pixelsize;
turbulence = 0;
for (scale = 1; scale > twice; scale /= 2)
turbulence += scale * noise(PP/scale);
/* Gradual fade out of highest-frequency component near limit */
if (scale > pixelsize) {
weight = (scale / pixelsize) - 1;
weight = clamp(weight, 0, 1);
turbulence += weight * scale * noise(PP/scale);
}
/*
* Magnify the upper part of the turbulence range 0.75:1
* to fill the range 0:1 and use it as the parameter of
* a color spline through various shades of blue.
*/
csp = clamp(4 * turbulence - 3, 0, 1);
Ci = color spline(csp,
color (0.25, 0.25, 0.35), /* pale blue */
color (0.25, 0.25, 0.35), /* pale blue */
color (0.20, 0.20, 0.30), /* medium blue */
color (0.20, 0.20, 0.30), /* medium blue */
color (0.20, 0.20, 0.30), /* medium blue */
color (0.25, 0.25, 0.35), /* pale blue */
color (0.25, 0.25, 0.35), /* pale blue */
color (0.15, 0.15, 0.26), /* medium dark blue */
color (0.15, 0.15, 0.26), /* medium dark blue */
color (0.10, 0.10, 0.20), /* dark blue */
color (0.10, 0.10, 0.20), /* dark blue */
color (0.25, 0.25, 0.35), /* pale blue */
color (0.10, 0.10, 0.20) /* dark blue */
);
/* Multiply this color by the diffusely reflected light. */
Ci *= Ka*ambient() + Kd*diffuse(Nf);
/* Adjust for opacity. */
Oi = Os;
Ci = Ci * Oi;
/* Add in specular highlights. */
Ci += specularcolor * Ks * specular(Nf,V,roughness);
}
Since 6975 DaysAs for procedural textures, I think quality is the biggest issue. But if you could get quality textures from procedural methods, there is no reason not to create them while loading or caching data. Imagine this scenario:
You are starting a new level in PGR5. You have 100MB of audio, 100MB of geometry, and 200MB of textures to cache before the user can begin racing. Lets assume magically 50% (100MB) of those textures could be procedurally created on the GPU.
So lets say it takes 40 seconds to stream 400MB to system memory, so what if you could write 300MB in 30 seconds and at the same time create 100MB of the textures procedurally?
They are stored in memory like any other texture, but instead of coming from the disk they were created in memory by a procedural generation application.
We aren't quite there yet... but we are getting closer. Much closer. So much so I think the next wave of consoles will rely on such techniques in a significant manner because of the benefits in modification, reduced artist load, reduced memory transfer (imagine 4GB of system memory and a BDR transfering to it... no, just no!) and such.
We will see though, although the field is very interesting and fast moving. MS talked it up a lot at GDC 2005 and as time goes on it will become more popular in content creation -- because applications are cheap, artists are not -- for things like cities, forests, etc.
The fans have spoken. Concerning the graphics of the Halo 3 Beta: "There's so many little effects and things going on that make this game pretty much 2nd only to Gears at the moment."
Since 7706 DaysSee the example there; it's a combination of layers of alphas and patterns. It still takes an artist a lot of work to create it (and some programming apparently when it comes to games). I use procedurals a lot in my work mainly because UV's are a bitch. ;)
From what I'm reading the main consideration actually is storage limitations, and the randomness procedurals can create.
Since 6975 DaysThe fans have spoken. Concerning the graphics of the Halo 3 Beta: "There's so many little effects and things going on that make this game pretty much 2nd only to Gears at the moment."
Since 7004 DaysSee the example there; it's a combination of layers of alphas and patterns. It still takes an artist a lot of work to create it (and some programming apparently when it comes to games). I use procedurals a lot in my work mainly because UV's are a bitch. ;)
From what I'm reading the main consideration actually is storage limitations, and the randomness procedurals can create.
Since 7706 DaysMath is hard for artists? Tools for creating procedural texture will *become* available? You really have no idea what you are talking about, I'm sorry, because procedurally generated textures have been around since the first 3d app on PC's.
Since 7004 DaysMath is hard for artists? Tools for creating procedural texture will *become* available? You really have no idea what you are talking about, I'm sorry, because procedurally generated textures have been around since the first 3d app on PC's.
Using these tools does not require a very complete understanding of how procedurally generated textures are actually being generated.
Since 7706 DaysI have never seen a texture generated by code like that. But you can install Modo and layer textures and play with layers and blending options 'til the cows come home if you like, and you will never need to enter a lick of code.
http://www.luxology.com/
I am not arguing for the sake of arguing, I happen to be a 3d artist. And I do not know what acert's field is, but I am willing to bet that I was required to take more math and physics classes than he has taken.
Since 7004 DaysI have never seen a texture generated by code like that. But you can install Modo and layer textures and play with layers and blending options 'til the cows come home if you like, and you will never need to enter a lick of code.
http://www.luxology.com/
I am not arguing for the sake of arguing, I happen to be a 3d artist.
Generating a fractal, which is one of the most basic examples of procedural generation is ALL math, and it requires a pretty good handle on math and programming to make that happen -- that's not too far off from what we're talking about in the real time implementation of these concepts in a videogame.
Since 7706 Days......
Forget it.
Since 7004 Days......
Forget it.
I'm not arguing that artists don't use procedural tools.. just that procedural algorithms can indeed by implemented in ways that save time for the artists, which saves man hours, and in the end, takes away from the amount of hand painted textures they might have to use.
There's a game that's in the kilobyte range.. you should check it out. You can bet that the person who implemented those procedural algorithms has a pretty wicked handle on math, and isn't necessarily an artist.
Since 6975 DaysSome nice videos that only use procedural textures. Some pretty nice textures... this is the same company who did the tech the Roboblitz folks used.
Most of the demos use less than 512KB in size for the app and textures and generate 100s of MBs of textures... and more importantly the materials, as they are procedurally created, and be altered as such. So you scuff a wall, for example, and it can get a scratch as per determined by the material characteristics of the texture.
The bathroom scene is very impressive because you can see how the bathroom ages and how plaster cracking reveals wood behind the wall -- all procedurally created.
The fans have spoken. Concerning the graphics of the Halo 3 Beta: "There's so many little effects and things going on that make this game pretty much 2nd only to Gears at the moment."
Since 6975 DaysAnd related to procedural textures is MS's patent on procedural synthesis which Ars broke down many moons ago: http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/xbox360...
The idea of using basic stock material and using applications to generate the content by user defined criteria (e.g. I want 100-150 pine trees per acre of various heights from seedlings to 200ft with the averge being 125ft and the median being 100ft, with average-to-thick density) is definately gaining steam because it allows artists to create masses of content quickly and for them to fine tune later if they so choose. This is exactly what Speedtree does. http://www.speedtree.com/
Right now most procedural synthesis is done at creation time, but eventually it will be done in some circumstances at loadtime and eventually even at runtime (many procedural texture applications are in the range of 40 ops).
The fact is games are using procedural technologies now and have been and they will only become more common as games need more art assets and hence artists, which are expensive, and game size increases but storage medium transfer rates remain low.
The fans have spoken. Concerning the graphics of the Halo 3 Beta: "There's so many little effects and things going on that make this game pretty much 2nd only to Gears at the moment."
Since 6896 Days20GB of textures or something like that while only taking up 2GB of space was it?
Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)
October 20th 2007 (A good day)
Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.
Since 6876 DaysArtists still have to paint and create their own textures. More importantly procedural algorithms wouldn't require that artists suddenly becoming coding masters. The artist can continue to create whatever he wants.
Since 6896 DaysArtists still have to paint and create their own textures. More importantly procedural algorithms wouldn't require that artists suddenly becoming coding masters. The artist can continue to create whatever he wants.
Hopefully it doesn't take away too many valuable resources from other aspects of the game. I suppose it shouldn't especially since the 360 was designed with this in mind?
Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)
October 20th 2007 (A good day)
Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.
Since 6943 DaysArtists still have to paint and create their own textures. More importantly procedural algorithms wouldn't require that artists suddenly becoming coding masters. The artist can continue to create whatever he wants.
Since 7004 DaysThe fact is games are using procedural technologies now and have been and they will only become more common as games need more art assets and hence artists, which are expensive, and game size increases but storage medium transfer rates remain low.
Since 6699 DaysYou just can't get full NEXT-GEN games with DVD-9.
Blue-Ray and HDDVD were available in the end of 2005. PS3 announced years ago that the PS3 will have Blue-Ray.
The external HDDVD-player only gives 1080p when watching movies but it can't be used too develop HDDVD-games. If they do that then all 360-owners will get mad to pay more money to play the best games. 199$ is expensive.
Huge d*ckmove by MS and the second hugest mistake after the hardwareproblems !!
Xbox 360
Halo 3 - Call of Duty 4 - Bioshock - Turok
Since 6872 DaysIn terms of business, not including HD-DVD is the smart move. Of course for us we want everything and will probably have paid $500 odd for a HD-DVD 360 anyway.
As for procedural texturing, the load times in PG3 were bad enough (though they were rushing for launch so I'll let them off) but does anyone have any idea how long we'll be waiting for an entire city to load up with procedural textures? It'll be like going back to the C64 days on current hardware!
It's a nice tech but not applicable in all situations.
Since 7027 Days
Since 6872 DaysTo be fair to PGR4, 10 cities the size of the first one makes for a pretty big game so it's not like we're being undersold. When we get to the point of needing the space just to get a decent length game out we'll have more things to worry about.
Still, such things might appear as DLC as 500MB for this isn't a big ask. If it's only a matter of rebaking the textures there's no reason why it can't be done for those willing to make the HD space.
Since 6336 Days