Forza Motorsport 3 : Thread

Since 6761 Days

Posted by vspectra06

Maybe you didn't read my post. I wasn't nitpicking, just pointing out that the forza 2 and forza 3 model for the Sagaris are pretty much identical. If it were remodeled from scratch, then I would have expected it to have the gaps, which are considerably noticeable in the real car, like in the Ford Focus RS Forza 3 image.

Not so noticable here though are they?

http://www.v10.pl/narzedzia/tapety/Samochody/TVR/T...

In reply to

vspectra06

Since 7723 Days

Posted by Jin187

Not so noticable here though are they?

http://www.v10.pl/narzedzia/tapety/Samochody/TVR/T...

It's still noticeable, especially compared to Forza's models which doesn't even look like it has separated parts. Compare that to the new car models which does look like each part of the car is separately modeled. You're taking this the wrong way anyway, it's not about the gap issue, it's about the models for new cars vs. the models for returning cars.

In reply to

Since 6761 Days

Posted by vspectra06

It's still noticeable, especially compared to Forza's models which doesn't even look like it has separated parts. Compare that to the new car models which does look like each part of the car is separately modeled. You're taking this the wrong way anyway, it's not about the gap issue, it's about the models for new cars vs. the models for returning cars.

Heres an idea, when the game comes out, spend the first couple of weeks comparing all the car models of FM2 with FM3, then you can draw us a little chart telling us the important subtle differences like the cars that have seperated panels and the cars that dont.

In reply to

LEBATO

Since 7139 Days

Posted by vspectra06

BTW, Che is usually quick to address issues with the game's graphics, but when Lebato posted the S4 pic and saying it looks like an imported Forza 2 model, he never explained anything, he just called Lebato a troll. lol.

He actually called me a hater, lol.

In reply to

Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

Inflatable

Since 7655 Days

Posted by Jin187

Heres an idea, when the game comes out, spend the first couple of weeks comparing all the car models of FM2 with FM3, then you can draw us a little chart telling us the important subtle differences like the cars that have seperated panels and the cars that dont.

LOL, yeah let people like him do that, while we enjoy the game by playing it.. These discussions are kindof useless.. Offcourse they are gonna use assets from the last version of the game, why wouldn't they?? It's the smart effecient way to do things, take a model you already have and update it (better textures etc).. It's also not like Polyphony Digital doesn't do the same with GT, because I'm sure every gamedeveloper does it that has a gameseries going..

And who cares aslong as it still looks better.. And I'm sure FM3 will look better then FM2, which is a achievement on it's own because it still has to run on the same old hardware (real big improvements can only be made on new more powerfull hardware)..

In reply to

http://www.cyberwarriors.nl
http://home.xmsnet.nl/bigbear/mycar.jpg

Since 6761 Days

Forza 2 Ferrari 599

Forza 3 Ferrari 599

Forza 2 Ferrari 599

Forza 3 Ferrari 599

In reply to

Since 6761 Days

Posted by Inflatable

LOL, yeah let people like him do that, while we enjoy the game by playing it.. These discussions are kindof useless.. Offcourse they are gonna use assets from the last version of the game, why wouldn't they?? It's the smart effecient way to do thing, take a model you already have and update it (better textures etc).. It's also not like Polyphony Digital doesn't do the same with GT, every gamedeveloper does it that has a gameseries going..

Who cares aslong as it still looks way better, and I'm sure FM3 will look better then FM2, which is a achiement on it's own because it still has to run on the same old hardware (real big improvements can only be made on new more powerfull hardware)..

Yeah your right, thats's the last post i will make on the matter, i'm just my wasting time on such a pointless discussion.

In reply to

Since 6988 Days

Posted by Tomarru

He's talkin through his arse tbh, its done for performance and nothing more. Not that it looks BAD now, but its certainly far less impressive. GT5P has cockpit views exactly like the original F3 ones we saw, you get a huge amount of cockpit and a small amount of track, the thing is it gives a great immersive feeling, even the short gif above is great to look at. Now we get next to no side window view and no side mirror. They are rendering far far less than they were otherwise.

The #1 concern is gameplay, not "it looks better." #2 is that be rendering more of the cockput in a Forward Renderer you actually should have an easier time performance profiling in *finished* code and better overall performance because you have essentially clipped more of the world to render. The more of the cockpit in view the fewer triangles at depth that need to be rendered. Further the cockpit is pretty straight forward and you aren't going to be hit with all sorts of grass, fence lines, smoke etc with transparencies as well as you are immediately clipping a ton of world and car geometry.

As we get closer and closer to release the more the wheels seem to be coming off this product, features are being cut back/dropped, it becomes more and more apparent that less effort has been spent than they are claiming and the whole thing is becoming more and more of a rush job.

Back this statement up with a list of features announced and now cut/degraded (in addition to new features announced in the last month formerly not announced).

As a mod I am requesting you back up your statement as the comments that followed (GT praise) reeks of trolling. If you cannot show any substance to the above your post is going to be bouleted. Opinions are fine, unsubstantiate slag fests can go to IGN or Gamespot.

That is all.

In reply to

[quote=Tomarru]He's talkin through his arse tbh, its done for performance and nothing more. Not that it looks BAD now, but its certainly far less impressive. GT5P has cockpit views exactly like the original F3 ones we saw, you get a huge amount of cockpit and a small amount of track, the thing is it gives a great immersive feeling, even the short gif above is great to look at. Now we get next to no side window view and no side mirror. They are rendering far far less than they were otherwise.[/quote]

The #1 concern is gameplay, not "it looks better." #2 is that be rendering more of the cockput in a Forward Renderer you actually should have an easier time performance profiling in *finished* code and better overall performance because you have essentially clipped more of the world to render. The more of the cockpit in view the fewer triangles at depth that need to be rendered. Further the cockpit is pretty straight forward and you aren't going to be hit with all sorts of grass, fence lines, smoke etc with transparencies as well as you are immediately clipping a ton of world and car geometry.

[quote]As we get closer and closer to release the more the wheels seem to be coming off this product, features are being cut back/dropped, it becomes more and more apparent that less effort has been spent than they are claiming and the whole thing is becoming more and more of a rush job.[/quote]

Back this statement up with a list of features announced and now cut/degraded (in addition to new features announced in the last month formerly not announced).

As a mod I am requesting you back up your statement as the comments that followed (GT praise) reeks of trolling. If you cannot show any substance to the above your post is going to be bouleted. Opinions are fine, unsubstantiate slag fests can go to IGN or Gamespot.

That is all.

Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

bloodforge

Since 7011 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

.

Am I the only one that thinks cockpit views like this one and in other games that have a similar view makes it feel like you're sitting in the back seat? You would never see that much of the interior while driving.

The newer shots with it closer in is a much more realistic view, IMO.

In reply to

Consoles: Xbox 360, PS3, Wii, PSP, DS, PS2, XBOX
Gaming PC: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600, 2gb ddr2-800ram, Nvidia Geforce 8800GT OC 512, Windows XP sp2

LEBATO

Since 7139 Days

Posted by Acert93

As a mod I am requesting you back up your statement as the comments that followed (GT praise) reeks of trolling. If you cannot show any substance to the above your post is going to be bouleted. Opinions are fine, unsubstantiate slag fests can go to IGN or Gamespot.

That is all.

Wow, while ignoring his posts I missed that ridiculous part. I'm sure he will pass on the list of things that got cut short :P

In reply to

Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

Since 6988 Days

Posted by bloodforge

Am I the only one that thinks cockpit views like this one and in other games that have a similar view makes it feel like you're sitting in the back seat? You would never see that much of the interior while driving.

The newer shots with it closer in is a much more realistic view, IMO.

Could someone post some side by side shots (video even better). While I thought T10 did an ok job with the E3 footge, the more "windshield" with a solid angle on the road, the better esp. if it has some aids for turning corners and whatnot (i.e. head lean).

In reply to

Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

Since 6761 Days

Posted by bloodforge

Am I the only one that thinks cockpit views like this one and in other games that have a similar view makes it feel like you're sitting in the back seat? You would never see that much of the interior while driving.

The newer shots with it closer in is a much more realistic view, IMO.

That's what I said a few posts back, this view is ridiculously far, you can hardly see anything at all. Anyone who drives a real car knows that this is certainly not the right perspective.

@Acert - Here is the newer cockpit view http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yW8fEf5hM4

In reply to

Since 6909 Days

Posted by bloodforge

Am I the only one that thinks cockpit views like this one and in other games that have a similar view makes it feel like you're sitting in the back seat? You would never see that much of the interior while driving.

The newer shots with it closer in is a much more realistic view, IMO.

You have a point, but then an argument can easily be made for the original view as well because, in a lot of cases, you actually do see that much of the cockpit as you drive. There's no way I see as little of the cockpit while driving as is the case with the newer cockpit view, even though I'm in total agreement that it's better for gameplay purposes.

This cockpit view situation has essentially become the equivalent of what turn 10 said about not requiring the cockpit view for Forza 2 and then they fixed that in Forza 3. Expect them to fix this cockpit view situation for Forza 4. I think it's clear they did it due to performance issues and I'm confident they'll iron them out for the next game, but for now, I can't see myself believing that it was done purely for gameplay purposes.

When I'm in a car, I see something more akin to the original view than I do with this newer view they are using. If the first view looked like you were in the backseat, this newer one looks like you're too short to reach the pedals and so you have to move in really close.

In reply to

[quote=bloodforge]

Am I the only one that thinks cockpit views like this one and in other games that have a similar view makes it feel like you're sitting in the back seat?   You would never see that much of the interior while driving.

The newer shots with it closer in is a much more realistic view, IMO.[/quote]

You have a point, but then an argument can easily be made for the original view as well because, in a lot of cases, you actually do see that much of the cockpit as you drive. There's no way I see as little of the cockpit while driving as is the case with the newer cockpit view, even though I'm in total agreement that it's better for gameplay purposes.

This cockpit view situation has essentially become the equivalent of what turn 10 said about not requiring the cockpit view for Forza 2 and then they fixed that in Forza 3. Expect them to fix this cockpit view situation for Forza 4. I think it's clear they did it due to performance issues and I'm confident they'll iron them out for the next game, but for now, I can't see myself believing that it was done purely for gameplay purposes.

When I'm in a car, I see something more akin to the original view than I do with this newer view they are using. If the first view looked like you were in the backseat, this newer one looks like you're too short to reach the pedals and so you have to move in really close.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic g

Tomarru

Since 6089 Days

Acert, it wasnt trolling, i was just comparing how i feel about F2 and GT. Well, just look at the initial feature set of F2, 12 cars on track, HDR, 4xAA, motion blur, night racing. All disappeared by final release. Then theres the missing cockpit view and the slow updates of reflections along with the hideous aliasing on the edges of the cars. Fast forward to F3 and we've got a couple of those features added back in but not all of them. The cockpit view has deteriorated from what was initially shown and what i got excited about. Car models seem to have a huge variation in quality, goin by a few of yesterdays shots the game can still look no better than F2.

Don't worry, if GT5 finally shows up and its missing any of the list that has been touted there I'll be every bit as harsh. Im not trying to troll, im trying to put across my point of view, i expect better from a first party studio, especially when they have been throwing media and boasting all over the place about how superior F3 is.

EDIT: http://betav2.gamersyde.com/forum_forza_developer_...

Just look at the above posts and you guys were being every bit as critical to F2.

In reply to

Acert, it wasnt trolling, i was just comparing how i feel about F2 and GT. Well, just look at the initial feature set of F2, 12 cars on track, HDR, 4xAA, motion blur, night racing. All disappeared by final release. Then theres the missing cockpit view and the slow updates of reflections along with the hideous aliasing on the edges of the cars. Fast forward to F3 and we've got a couple of those features added back in but not all of them. The cockpit view has deteriorated from what was initially shown and what i got excited about. Car models seem to have a huge variation in quality, goin by a few of yesterdays shots the game can still look no better than F2.

Don't worry, if GT5 finally shows up and its missing any of the list that has been touted there I'll be every bit as harsh. Im not trying to troll, im trying to put across my point of view, i expect better from a first party studio, especially when they have been throwing media and boasting all over the place about how superior F3 is.

EDIT: http://betav2.gamersyde.com/forum_forza_developer_pushing_xbox_360-8_27377_1_en.html

Just look at the above posts and you guys were being every bit as critical to F2.

Since 6909 Days

I will admit, the cockpit view has definitely deteriorated.

To go from that, to what we have now, without having so much as an option to go back to the original, is by no means a good thing.

As I've said many times already, I'm in agreement with those who feel the newer view looks like it may be better for gameplay, but I also see zero reason why a gamer couldn't also achieve similar results with the original cockpit view we saw during the E3 unveiling. 60fps is important, but I sure as heck wouldn't mind 30fps cockpits if it meant we were going to be playing this.

I actually wouldn't mind if the game were delayed till October of next year for them to get the original cockpit view back in there, and hopefully get it running at 60fps.

The more I see the old cockpit view, the more I become disappointed to tell the truth :/

If it doesn't affect performance, why not have it in there?

In reply to

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic g

Since 6988 Days

Posted by Tomarru

Acert, it wasnt trolling, i was just comparing how i feel about F2 and GT.

He's talkin through his arse tbh, its done for performance and nothing more. Not that it looks BAD now, but its certainly far less impressive.

=> Topic: Cockpit view in FM3

As we get closer and closer to release the more the wheels seem to be coming off this product,

=> Product, FM3

I am not stupid. So either respond to my request, conceed your statements have no merit, or ... fill in the blank!

Btw, as the leader of the FM2-downgrade-grenade bragaid I would be interested to see how FM3 is doing everything you say as I don't follow ever detail... but something tells me you are full of it. So put up or shut up.

In reply to

Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

Since 6909 Days

Acert, you don't think the cockpit view received an unfortunate toning down?

Surely you don't agree with the "change had nothing to do with performance" line they are giving us.

In fact, from some of the vids I've seen, the new cockpit views actually totally invalidate a lot of the extra emphasis that was originally put on the fact that all the guages inside the vehicle cockpits were working and accurate.

In reply to

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic g

bloodforge

Since 7011 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

Acert, you don't think the cockpit view received an unfortunate toning down?

Surely you don't agree with the "change had nothing to do with performance" line they are giving us.

In fact, from some of the vids I've seen, the new cockpit views actually totally invalidate a lot of the extra emphasis that was originally put on the fact that all the guages inside the vehicle cockpits were working and accurate.

All the gauges are still visible if you move your view with the right stick. Same with all mirrors, they would still be rendering those off-screen, moving the camera view in or out wouldn't change the performance/frame rate.

In reply to

Consoles: Xbox 360, PS3, Wii, PSP, DS, PS2, XBOX
Gaming PC: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600, 6gb ddr2-800ram, Nvidia Geforce 8800GT OC 512, Windows 7 64bit RC1

Since 6909 Days

True, but it sucks that you have to move around with the right stick, whereas with the original, they were just right there.

In reply to

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic g

CARB

Since 6570 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

True, but it sucks that you have to move around with the right stick, whereas with the original, they were just right there.

SERIOUSLY, ive been reading this tread from the start...and you are being stupid man, totaly stupid...do you even drive, have you ever driven a high powered vehicle ??????

my last car was a turbo charged VW corrado vr6 (uk)....and doing close to 200 mph, you aint looking at the steering wheel, you are looking out the freeking window, and in normal driving position the "revised" cockpit view is more akin to a real driving position.

i expect that the forza team have had this in the hands of pro drivers and the feedback would have been that the "original" cockpit view was too distracting...and not representative of a real driving position.

stop whining like a baby, wait till you have the game in your hands, if you dont like it...i dont think turn 10 are going to lose any sleep over it.
but , whining on this thread about the cock pit being changed, isnt going to change a god damn thing.

im going to buy it regardless, and so are millions of other fans, i dont expect turn 10 are crying that a minority on gamersyde are "up in arms"
there is only like five of you that are regular posters on this thread any ways !!!!!!

and one question, why would you want to move the stick around whilst in cock pit view ?????, if you drive, do you spend you time driving looking at the steering wheel, then the gear shifter, then the side window, then the dials, then the wheel again, or do you look straight ahead ?

In reply to

[quote=Optimusv2]True, but it sucks that you have to move around with the right stick, whereas with the original, they were just right there.[/quote]

SERIOUSLY, ive been reading this tread from the start...and you are being stupid man, totaly stupid...do you even drive, have you ever driven a high powered vehicle ??????

my last car was a turbo charged VW corrado vr6 (uk)....and doing close to 200 mph, you aint looking at the steering wheel, you are looking out the freeking window, and in normal driving position the "revised" cockpit view is more akin to a real driving position.

i expect that the forza team have had this in the hands of pro drivers and the feedback would have been that the "original" cockpit view was too distracting...and not representative of a real driving position.

stop whining like a baby, wait till you have the game in your hands, if you dont like it...i dont think turn 10 are going to lose any sleep over it.
but , whining on this thread about the cock pit being changed, isnt going to change a god damn thing.

im going to buy it regardless, and so are millions of other fans, i dont expect turn 10 are crying that a minority on gamersyde are "up in arms"
there is only like five of you that are regular posters on this thread any ways !!!!!!

and one question, why would you want to move the stick around whilst in cock pit view ?????, if you drive, do you spend you time driving looking at the steering wheel, then the gear shifter, then the side window, then the dials, then the wheel again, or do you look straight ahead ?

i just dont give a fuck !

Since 6988 Days

Posted by CARB

and one question, why would you want to move the stick around whilst in cock pit view ?????, if you drive, do you spend you time driving looking at the steering wheel, then the gear shifter, then the side window, then the dials, then the wheel again, or do you look straight ahead ?

Looking out your side window (esp. to see the side view mirror) is pretty important if you are racing and looking to pass peeps!

In reply to

Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

Since 6909 Days

Posted by CARB

SERIOUSLY, ive been reading this tread from the start...and you are being stupid man, totaly stupid...do you even drive, have you ever driven a high powered vehicle ??????

my last car was a turbo charged VW corrado vr6 (uk)....and doing close to 200 mph, you aint looking at the steering wheel, you are looking out the freeking window, and in normal driving position the "revised" cockpit view is more akin to a real driving position.

i expect that the forza team have had this in the hands of pro drivers and the feedback would have been that the "original" cockpit view was too distracting...and not representative of a real driving position.

stop whining like a baby, wait till you have the game in your hands, if you dont like it...i dont think turn 10 are going to lose any sleep over it.
but , whining on this thread about the cock pit being changed, isnt going to change a god damn thing.

im going to buy it regardless, and so are millions of other fans, i dont expect turn 10 are crying that a minority on gamersyde are "up in arms"
there is only like five of you that are regular posters on this thread any ways !!!!!!

and one question, why would you want to move the stick around whilst in cock pit view ?????, if you drive, do you spend you time driving looking at the steering wheel, then the gear shifter, then the side window, then the dials, then the wheel again, or do you look straight ahead ?

First: Calm the hell down; nobody is being stupid. I'm just pointing something out.

Second: Not that you care, and nor should you, but my purchase of this game was 100% confirmed the day it was announced.

Third: "Too distracting and not representative of a real driving position?" Nice excuse... So it was changed because pro drivers told them it wasn't done correctly? You actually believe that? It was changed because of performance issues. Just because they changed it, and you can't bring yourself to admit that some of these cockpit views look way too pushed in for their own good, all of a sudden the excuse is that the previous cockpit view didn't look good, was unrealistic, unplayable and all these other random excuses that I see people making simply because they can't bring themselves to admit that turn 10 is obviously compensating for the fact that they couldn't get the framerate to 60fps while in cockpit view so they toned it down?

The choices they were probably faced with were to

#1 Remove cockpit view all together, which would've gotten them savaged so that wasn't about to happen.

#2 Stick with 30fps while in cockpit mode, which I could probably live with, but would surely go against all the marketing talk about the importance of 60fps.

#3 Cut down on the amount of geometry on screen while in cockpit mode to help improve the framerate.

Turn 10 clearly went with option #3.

If you can't even admit that much, and are still going to cling to the delusion that some of these cockpit views are more perfectly representative of real life as opposed to being a bit too compromised to the point of almost making the fact that turn 10 decided to put in the effort to include cockpits this time around pointless, then by all means believe what you want.

In reply to

[quote=CARB]

SERIOUSLY, ive been reading this tread from the start...and you are being stupid man, totaly stupid...do you even drive, have you ever driven a high powered vehicle ??????

my last car was a turbo charged VW corrado vr6 (uk)....and doing close to 200 mph, you aint looking at the steering wheel, you are looking out the freeking window, and in normal driving position the "revised" cockpit view is more akin to a real driving position.

i expect that the forza team have had this in the hands of pro drivers and the feedback would have been that the "original" cockpit view was too distracting...and not representative of a real driving position.

stop whining like a baby, wait till you have the game in your hands, if you dont like it...i dont think turn 10 are going to lose any sleep over it.
but , whining on this thread about the cock pit being changed, isnt going to change a god damn thing.

im going to buy it regardless, and so are millions of other fans, i dont expect turn 10 are crying that a minority on gamersyde are "up in arms"
there is only like five of you that are regular posters on this thread any ways !!!!!!

and one question, why would you want to move the stick around whilst in cock pit view ?????, if you drive, do you spend you time driving looking at the steering wheel, then the gear shifter, then the side window, then the dials, then the wheel again, or do you look straight ahead ?[/quote]

First: Calm the hell down; nobody is being stupid. I'm just pointing something out.

Second: Not that you care, and nor should you, but my purchase of this game was 100% confirmed the day it was announced.

Third: "Too distracting and not representative of a real driving position?" Nice excuse... So it was changed because pro drivers told them it wasn't done correctly? You actually believe that? It was changed because of performance issues. Just because they changed it, and you can't bring yourself to admit that some of these cockpit views look [b]way[/b] too pushed in for their own good, all of a sudden the excuse is that the previous cockpit view didn't look good, was unrealistic, unplayable and all these other random excuses that I see people making simply because they can't bring themselves to admit that turn 10 is obviously compensating for the fact that they couldn't get the framerate to 60fps while in cockpit view so they toned it down?

The choices they were probably faced with were to

#1 Remove cockpit view all together, which would've gotten them savaged so that wasn't about to happen.

#2 Stick with 30fps while in cockpit mode, which I could probably live with, but would surely go against all the marketing talk about the importance of 60fps.

#3 Cut down on the amount of geometry on screen while in cockpit mode to help improve the framerate.

Turn 10 clearly went with option #3.

If you can't even admit that much, and are still going to cling to the delusion that some of these cockpit views are more perfectly representative of real life as opposed to being a bit too compromised to the point of almost making the fact that turn 10 decided to put in the effort to include cockpits this time around pointless, then by all means believe what you want.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic g

Since 6988 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

#3 Cut down on the amount of geometry on screen while in cockpit mode to help improve the framerate.

Turn 10 clearly went with option #3.

If you can't even admit that much, and are still going to cling to the delusion that some of these cockpit views are more perfectly representative of real life as opposed to being a bit too compromised to the point of almost making the fact that turn 10 decided to put in the effort to include cockpits this time around pointless, then by all means believe what you want.

It isn't clear at ALL that #3 is why!

Xenos is fine with geometry, even more importantly is that having more dashboard in view actually means they render a LOT less difficult objects because you essentially get to clip more of the screen. The game uses a typical forward renderer so the closest objects are essentially rendered first and everything behind them is clipped. A 3rd person view with an additional couple cars (e.g. starting line) is a LOT bigger rendering task than the cabin.

I don't know how many BAD cockpit views you guys have played, but when you have a cockpit that obscures large parts of the gameworld related to gameplay that is a BAD thing. When the camera is positioned so you are looking too high, too low, or at stationar opbjects on screen obscuring gameplay that is BAD.

I am with Lebato with this one: when I drive I actually have to look down to see my guages. I am positioned and focused to get the best FOV through my windshield. Car games have a big issue: it is difficult to move your head, both on its axes as well as spatially to get the "perfect" view. The best gameplay compromise is to give the best gameplay view gamers are familiar with and use--inthis case as much forward realestate as possible. The closer the camera is to the screen the better.

Likewise turning around corners should instigate camera adjustments where your head moves to the opposite side but looks INTO the corner giving you a BETTER view of the gameplay field.

This has nothing to do with perfomance.

In reply to

[quote=Optimusv2]#3 Cut down on the amount of geometry on screen while in cockpit mode to help improve the framerate.

Turn 10 clearly went with option #3.

If you can't even admit that much, and are still going to cling to the delusion that some of these cockpit views are more perfectly representative of real life as opposed to being a bit too compromised to the point of almost making the fact that turn 10 decided to put in the effort to include cockpits this time around pointless, then by all means believe what you want.[/quote]

It isn't clear at ALL that #3 is why!

Xenos is fine with geometry, even more importantly is that having more dashboard in view actually means they render a LOT less difficult objects because you essentially get to clip more of the screen. The game uses a typical forward renderer so the closest objects are essentially rendered first and everything behind them is clipped. A 3rd person view with an additional couple cars (e.g. starting line) is a LOT bigger rendering task than the cabin.

I don't know how many BAD cockpit views you guys have played, but when you have a cockpit that obscures large parts of the gameworld related to gameplay that is a BAD thing. When the camera is positioned so you are looking too high, too low, or at stationar opbjects on screen obscuring gameplay that is BAD.

I am with Lebato with this one: when I drive I actually have to look down to see my guages. I am positioned and focused to get the best FOV through my windshield. Car games have a big issue: it is difficult to move your head, both on its axes as well as spatially to get the "perfect" view. The best gameplay compromise is to give the best gameplay view gamers are familiar with and use--inthis case as much forward realestate as possible. The closer the camera is to the screen the better.

Likewise turning around corners should instigate camera adjustments where your head moves to the opposite side but looks INTO the corner giving you a BETTER view of the gameplay field.

This has nothing to do with perfomance.

Pwn'd by Phaethon360.