Halo Reach

Since 6885 Days

I'd say the beta has turned me into a believer. I'm pretty sure I'll be getting Reach at launch, I had plenty fun with the beta!

Didn't think I would be able to go back to Halo after COD4, but it was a nice changeup again. Though I would still pick COD4 over Halo Reach if I had to make a choice. Fortunately, I don't. :)

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Ronsauce

Since 6994 Days

I'm absolutely stoked for Reach. The beta was a ton of fun for me, and I'd probably be quite content if they didn't change a thing. If Bungie continues to fix bugs and play around with balance issues a good deal, that's even better.

The beta also made me even more excited for the single player...specifically with respect to fighting the Elites. I love how they look and move, and I expect encounters with them in the campaign to be a lot of fun.

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Zapp Brannigan: If we can hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

GriftGFX

Since 7009 Days

I think there are some aspects of the beta that need a lot of work, but it's still very fun. Beta-to-beta, I think Halo 3 made a better impression on me. I think that it has a lot to do with the level design too, and not just the rifle bloom, weapon balance (which certainly make it a different game!), or AA. Vahala and High Ground are much better maps than Power House or Sword Base, and it's difficult to detach the other two maps from their respective game modes. Maybe Overlook will be awesome in other modes, but right now it just feels like a testbed. Generator Defense and Invasion are also pretty bold moves for bungie, since most of their other game types are just rehashes of classic modes.. but they both need a lot more work! I see the potential in Invasion, but in its current form it's pretty broken. Invasion Slayer is better.

Ultimately it's good stuff, and I too am looking forward to both campaign co-op and full blown MP.

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blmbox

Since 6340 Days

I think the Beta's been fantastic, and I've no doubt that it will be the best game of the series.

I don't think I've had this much fun with a Halo game as I have with Reach - although there are some improvements that need to be made.

In reply to

GriftGFX

Since 7009 Days

Posted by blmbox

I think the Beta's been fantastic, and I've no doubt that it will be the best game of the series.

I don't think I've had this much fun with a Halo game as I have with Reach - although there are some improvements that need to be made.

There's no way that this game is up to Halo 3 quality at this point.

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blmbox

Since 6340 Days

I personally prefer it to Halo 3.

In reply to

Viginti_Tres

Since 6510 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

There's no way that this game is up to Halo 3 quality at this point.

Quality, no. But I like it more than I liked the Halo 3 beta. Halo 3 maps were very weak over all and with maps like Sword Base and the inclusion of jet packs I hope for more vertical maps (I have a soft spot for vertical maps and Construct proved to be one of my favs).

I also like the weapons way more. They all seem useful and the single shot weapons are just very satisfying. They have to work on some of the details, especially the feedback and visual cues. But they already felt better than the BR to me, compared to the H2 BR it lacked that "umph". It just sounded weak.

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GriftGFX

Since 7009 Days

Posted by blmbox

I personally prefer it to Halo 3.

Certain aspects of it are very promising, it just lacks the polish that Halo 3 had at this same point in development. It still needs a lot of work.

Posted by Viginti_Tres

Quality, no. But I like it more than I liked the Halo 3 beta. Halo 3 maps were very weak over all and with maps like Sword Base and the inclusion of jet packs I hope for more vertical maps (I have a soft spot for vertical maps and Construct proved to be one of my favs).

I also like the weapons way more. They all seem useful and the single shot weapons are just very satisfying. They have to work on some of the details, especially the feedback and visual cues. But they already felt better than the BR to me, compared to the H2 BR it lacked that "umph". It just sounded weak.

I mostly agree, but I disagree about the level design stuff (clearly). I think Sword Base blows, and PH is no High Ground. Plus, I really like Valhalla. There are definitely maps in Halo 3 that exceed those, too, but I'm just comparing beta-to-beta.

In reply to

[quote=blmbox]I personally prefer it to Halo 3.[/quote]

Certain aspects of it are very promising, it just lacks the polish that Halo 3 had at this same point in development. It still needs a lot of work.

[quote=Viginti_Tres]

Quality, no. But I like it more than I liked the Halo 3 beta. Halo 3 maps were very weak over all and with maps like Sword Base and the inclusion of jet packs I hope for more vertical maps (I have a soft spot for vertical maps and Construct proved to be one of my favs).

I also like the weapons way more. They all seem useful and the single shot weapons are just very satisfying. They have to work on some of the details, especially the feedback and visual cues. But they already felt better than the BR to me, compared to the H2 BR it lacked that "umph". It just sounded weak.[/quote]

I mostly agree, but I disagree about the level design stuff (clearly). I think Sword Base blows, and PH is no High Ground. Plus, I really like Valhalla. There are definitely maps in Halo 3 that exceed those, too, but I'm just comparing beta-to-beta.

Ronsauce

Since 6994 Days

Posted by blmbox

I personally prefer it to Halo 3.

Ditto that. I mostly tend to play Team Slayer, and the AAs allow for a more successful lone wolf when teammates inevitably don't have mics(which I still find retardedly baffling).

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Zapp Brannigan: If we can hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

blmbox

Since 6340 Days

The one mode I really like is Team SWAT. It's simple yet refreshing.

Probably the main reason why I prefer the Reach Beta to Halo 3 is because of the Armor Abilities; quite simply, they shit all over the equipment in the third game. For the most part they're balanced, they feel like a core component of the game - unlike the equipment in Halo 3 - and they're just more fun to use.

There's nothing better than reigning death from above by using a jetpack. Oh, and assassinations are ridiculously satisfying.

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Ronsauce

Since 6994 Days

Posted by blmbox

Oh, and assassinations are ridiculously satisfying.

I unintentionally perform assassinations quite often instead of a quick melee. Even if I make a conscious effort not to hold the button, I still end up with an assassination.

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Zapp Brannigan: If we can hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

GriftGFX

Since 7009 Days

Posted by Ronsauce

I unintentionally perform assassinations quite often instead of a quick melee. Even if I make a conscious effort not to hold the button, I still end up with an assassination.

And that's pretty frustrating if it ends badly for you. I hope they increase the time you need to hold down the button (or something).

Posted by blmbox

The one mode I really like is Team SWAT. It's simple yet refreshing.

Probably the main reason why I prefer the Reach Beta to Halo 3 is because of the Armor Abilities; quite simply, they shit all over the equipment in the third game. For the most part they're balanced, they feel like a core component of the game - unlike the equipment in Halo 3 - and they're just more fun to use.

There's nothing better than reigning death from above by using a jetpack. Oh, and assassinations are ridiculously satisfying.

I love the concept of armor abilities, and I love the idea that we'll be able to make our own custom "kits" too. It also gives bungie a lot of wiggle room to play around with the game and create new and potentially exciting game types. Equipment ruled though. The power drainer alone was amazing. Lets not forget: AA is a replacement for power ups too! No more overshield or active camo! But I agree for the most part, it's an exciting twist on the Halo formula. There's nothing about Reach that "shits all over" Halo 3 in its current form, but if it approaches Halo 3 levels of polish and package, it will definitely be the best Halo game ever. And why shouldn't it be? It's bungie's last great effort for their greatest franchise.

I like SWAT too, but it really does seem like people forget that it's not actually a new mode. But it's better in Reach thanks to the ability to sprint. Frankly, I find it hard to use anything but sprint thanks to the fact that spartans are even slower in Halo Reach, but they're all fun, and jet packs have a huge potential in vertical levels. I just hope there aren't too many vertical levels! I don't really care much for Sword Base.

In reply to

[quote=Ronsauce]

I unintentionally perform assassinations quite often instead of a quick melee. Even if I make a conscious effort not to hold the button, I still end up with an assassination.[/quote]

And that's pretty frustrating if it ends badly for you. I hope they increase the time you need to hold down the button (or something).

[quote=blmbox]The one mode I [i]really[/i] like is Team SWAT. It's simple yet refreshing.

Probably the main reason why I prefer the Reach Beta to Halo 3 is because of the Armor Abilities; quite simply, they shit all over the equipment in the third game. For the most part they're balanced, they feel like a core component of the game - unlike the equipment in Halo 3 - and they're just more fun to use.

There's nothing better than reigning death from above by using a jetpack. Oh, and assassinations are ridiculously satisfying.[/quote]

I love the concept of armor abilities, and I love the idea that we'll be able to make our own custom "kits" too. It also gives bungie a lot of wiggle room to play around with the game and create new and potentially exciting game types. Equipment ruled though. The power drainer alone was amazing. Lets not forget: AA is a replacement for [i]power ups[/i] too! No more overshield or active camo! But I agree for the most part, it's an exciting twist on the Halo formula. There's nothing about Reach that "shits all over" Halo 3 in its current form, but if it approaches Halo 3 levels of polish and package, it will definitely be the best Halo game ever. And why shouldn't it be? It's bungie's last great effort for their greatest franchise.

I like SWAT too, but it really does seem like people forget that it's not actually a new mode. But it's [i]better[/i] in Reach thanks to the ability to sprint. Frankly, I find it hard to use anything but sprint thanks to the fact that spartans are [i]even slower[/i] in Halo Reach, but they're all fun, and jet packs have a huge potential in vertical levels. I just hope there aren't too many vertical levels! I don't really care much for Sword Base.

Viginti_Tres

Since 6510 Days

I never thought I could ever tolerate SWAT, but I liked it in Reach too. Without the BR spread it's quite enjoyable since not every buffoon can pull off a head shot within milliseconds. Also agree that AAs are vastly superior to equipment. Even armour lock seems like a good addition in light of the bubble shield or the regenerator.

I just hope Reach will get an all MLG playlist early on, or at least a hardcore one. No radar, only sprint/evade and head shot weapons at spawn is where the fun is at for me. Well, unless I'm playing with buddies on the same console, for that I have high hopes for Invasion. That was by far the most fun I've had with the beta.

In reply to

GriftGFX

Since 7009 Days

Posted by Viginti_Tres

I just hope Reach will get an all MLG playlist early on, or at least a hardcore one. No radar, only sprint/evade and head shot weapons at spawn is where the fun is at for me. Well, unless I'm playing with buddies on the same console, for that I have high hopes for Invasion. That was by far the most fun I've had with the beta.

I'm sure MLG will come up with something even better but there's already Slayer Pro in the beta. Sprint only; NR and DMR kits; pistols on the map, and no radar. It's pretty good.

In reply to

Viginti_Tres

Since 6510 Days

Oh I played it, sure. But it came up twice in 2 weekends. If it got a playlist of its own with some healthy amount of objective game types (crazy king, oddball, 2 flag CTF) it would be ace.

And speaking of AAs, I don't get the love for jet packs. Every time I hear it, it's like an invitation to look out for them and grab an easy kill. At least I can't imagine it ever being used in a highly skilled lobby unless for a desperate last attempt in an objective game.

In reply to

Viginti_Tres

Since 6510 Days

Ok, some other thoughts on the Beta: Bungie needs to tone down grenades, increase movement speed and address some issues with the head shot weapons, mainly the bloom. The problem I see is that gunplay is taking a huge step back in terms of relevance while grenades are predominantly the deciding factor in standard confrontations. The way it's been in Halo 2/3 was that grenades were there to weaken enemies first and foremost, and finish them with your rifle (preferably with a head shot).

In Reach it's the other way around. It needs two shots and a nade thrown somewhere near the opponent to kill him. Since he can't escape the nade with its huge blast radius it's a sure kill 90% of the time. Another side effect of this constellation is that team shooting is even more important than it was in Halo 3, the small clip and the amount of time it takes to kill someone just with bullets makes it necessary. While there is nothing bad about team play I think Halo 3 had just enough of it.

There still needs to be a way for a good player to turn the tables in the most desperate of situation. This is Halo in a nutshell. The best FPS games have their moments you crave for. There are moments in BF that you'd label "Battlefield Moments". Halo thrives on multi kills and sprees, or it has been until Reach. With all the steps Bungie took with Reach they've been working against that formula. I had my fair share of Overkills and Triplekills this Beta, but nothing was really memorable (apart from a Triple but only because I had a really nice stick at the end). Most of them involved chucking two nades and some close quarter combat. It's just as boring to watch as it sounds and it didn't make me feel good about myself.

What I want to see is that the gameplay is allowed to evolve throughout the lifetime of the MP. See, if Bungie had decided with the last game that they wanted to severely limit the capabilities of a single player we would not see plays like these on a pro circuit. But it seems like they want to do it now.

In reply to

Ok, some other thoughts on the Beta: Bungie needs to tone down grenades, increase movement speed and address some issues with the head shot weapons, mainly the bloom. The problem I see is that gunplay is taking a huge step back in terms of relevance while grenades are predominantly the deciding factor in standard confrontations. The way it's been in Halo 2/3 was that grenades were there to weaken enemies first and foremost, and finish them with your rifle (preferably with a head shot).

In Reach it's the other way around. It needs two shots and a nade thrown somewhere near the opponent to kill him. Since he can't escape the nade with its huge blast radius it's a sure kill 90% of the time. Another side effect of this constellation is that team shooting is even more important than it was in Halo 3, the small clip and the amount of time it takes to kill someone just with bullets makes it necessary. While there is nothing bad about team play I think Halo 3 had just enough of it.

There still needs to be a way for a good player to turn the tables in the most desperate of situation. This is Halo in a nutshell. The best FPS games have their moments you crave for. There are moments in BF that you'd label "Battlefield Moments". Halo thrives on multi kills and sprees, or it has been until Reach. With all the steps Bungie took with Reach they've been working against that formula. I had my fair share of Overkills and Triplekills this Beta, but nothing was really memorable (apart from a Triple but only because I had a really nice stick at the end). Most of them involved chucking two nades and some close quarter combat. It's just as boring to watch as it sounds and it didn't make me feel good about myself.

What I want to see is that the gameplay is allowed to evolve throughout the lifetime of the MP. See, if Bungie had decided with the last game that they wanted to severely limit the capabilities of a single player we would not see plays like [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljANzH4wMWk#t=6m23s]these[/url] on a pro circuit. But it seems like they want to do it now.

Jato

Since 6885 Days

Can't say I have an issue with the grenades. Have had absolutely no problem with grenade spamming or anything like that. If you want to know what grenade spamming is, then play a match of TDM on Wetwork in COD4. ;)

I don't know, the nades feel spot on to me. I haven't been killed all that often by grenades, and haven't gotten an excessive amount of kills with them either. I've actually have had plenty of occasions were I was convinced I should've killed someone with a grenade + a couple of shots and they walked away unharmed...

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Viginti_Tres

Since 6510 Days

It's not the frequency of it's occurrence, it's the game play mechanic itself that bothers me.

In reply to

GriftGFX

Since 7009 Days

Well, they already mentioned they'll be getting tweaked, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. I don't think they're that bad, but they're definitely a little too powerful for Halo. They shouldn't be compared to Call of Duty grenades. This is an entirely different kind of game, after all, and you don't have one hit melee kills and two bullet headshot kills in Halo either. It is worth noting that a grenade still can't kill you at full health though, and a part of me actually likes being able to get kills and double kills with frags. I like the soften + headshot technique in previous Halo games, but I hope that they just tone down the blast radius a little and maybe not the damage. Whatever they do, it's a certainty that grenades are getting looked at.

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Ronsauce

Since 6994 Days

While I'm enjoying how lethal the grenades are in the beta, I wouldn't be upset if their damage was toned down slightly. That said, I absolutely hated the grenades in Halo 3 and spent an awful lot of time completely frustrated that shooting AND a nade at an enemy's feet didn't kill them how I expected.

The only thing I absolutely want addressed is the quick double melee. I hate getting killed by it, and I don't feel particularly good when I use it to get kills.

In reply to

Zapp Brannigan: If we can hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

deftangel

Since 6877 Days

Posted by Ronsauce

The only thing I absolutely want addressed is the quick double melee. I hate getting killed by it, and I don't feel particularly good when I use it to get kills.

They've said multiple times this is a bug and it's getting fixed.

The grenades supposedly have a descending damage radius (i.e. further away you are, less damage it'll do) and even in the beta, supposedly one grenade shouldn't be enough to kill you. It didn't always feel that way mind because one grenade and the odd bullet would definitely kill you and they frequently happened simultaneously, so it felt like you got killed by just the grenade. I'm not sure what part of them I would change, maybe the shape of the damage curve in some way.

Like everything, it'll feel a lot better after a few months of tweaking. What isn't going to happen are wholesale changes that make it more like Halo 3. Fundamentally they've also said they will standby the new model for the grenades so I don't think they are going to change massively. They made a point of saying explicitly they aren't going back to the old model.

In reply to

[quote=Ronsauce]The only thing I absolutely want addressed is the quick double melee. I hate getting killed by it, and I don't feel particularly good when I use it to get kills.[/quote]

They've said multiple times this is a bug and it's getting fixed.

The grenades supposedly have a descending damage radius (i.e. further away you are, less damage it'll do) and even in the beta, supposedly one grenade shouldn't be enough to kill you. It didn't always feel that way mind because one grenade and the odd bullet would definitely kill you and they frequently happened simultaneously, so it felt like you got killed by just the grenade. I'm not sure what part of them I would change, maybe the shape of the damage curve in some way.

Like everything, it'll feel a lot better after a few months of tweaking. What isn't going to happen are wholesale changes that make it more like Halo 3. Fundamentally they've also said they will standby the new model for the grenades so I don't think they are going to change massively. They made a point of saying explicitly they aren't going back to the old model.

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Acert93

Since 6979 Days

Posted by deftangel

Like everything, it'll feel a lot better after a few months of tweaking. What isn't going to happen are wholesale changes that make it more like Halo 3. Fundamentally they've also said they will standby the new model for the grenades so I don't think they are going to change massively. They made a point of saying explicitly they aren't going back to the old model.

I think a big part of the problem is the Health+Shield dynamic. e.g. A nade takes down your shields and lets say 25% health. What is someone doing who threw a nade? More often than not SHOOTING. So if they hit you 1x before or 1x just after the nade with a good shot you.are.dead.

Nerfing the nades doesn't sound like a good solution. Fewer nades + faster players would probably get the results they want if they are just looking at stats. Lets be clear: Reach wasn't MW1--nades were not a no-shot kill in theory. Getting multi-kills with nades was rare. I know in MW2 I get a ton of stuns every round + average 2 claymore kills a round. I think a lot of the nade complaints comes from the fact the guns themselves made players bullet magnets so the nades seemed quite powerful when used correctly. If someone gets a nade right next to someone and then bang-bang gets two good shots off or a head shot why shouldn't they die?

When people learn the maps better they won't be so prone to just stand in open areas making for easy nade tosses. Further as the jetpack AA gives you some great Nade Tossing angles, especially on FLAG games. I played far more CTF and Crazy King in Reach than I ever did in Halo 3 so the number of nade kills seems reasonable due to the nature of the game. I don't remember dieing but a handful of times on PowerHouse with a frag in Team Slayer. Sure, I killed people with them but they almost always came from people doing dumb things (like setting near where the red flag zone would be in that open area with the wall behind them).

In reply to

[quote=deftangel]Like everything, it'll feel a lot better after a few months of tweaking. What isn't going to happen are wholesale changes that make it more like Halo 3. Fundamentally they've also said they will standby the new model for the grenades so I don't think they are going to change massively. They made a point of saying explicitly they aren't going back to the old model.[/quote]

I think a big part of the problem is the Health+Shield dynamic. e.g. A nade takes down your shields and lets say 25% health. What is someone doing who threw a nade? More often than not SHOOTING. So if they hit you 1x before or 1x just after the nade with a good shot you.are.dead.

Nerfing the nades doesn't sound like a good solution. Fewer nades + faster players would probably get the results they want if they are just looking at stats. Lets be clear: Reach wasn't MW1--nades were not a no-shot kill in theory. Getting multi-kills with nades was rare. I know in MW2 I get a ton of stuns every round + average 2 claymore kills a round. I think a lot of the nade complaints comes from the fact the guns themselves made players bullet magnets so the nades seemed quite powerful when used correctly. If someone gets a nade right next to someone and then bang-bang gets two good shots off or a head shot why shouldn't they die?

When people learn the maps better they won't be so prone to just stand in open areas making for easy nade tosses. Further as the jetpack AA gives you some great Nade Tossing angles, especially on FLAG games. I played far more CTF and Crazy King in Reach than I ever did in Halo 3 so the number of nade kills seems reasonable due to the nature of the game. I don't remember dieing but a handful of times on PowerHouse with a frag in Team Slayer. Sure, I killed people with them but they almost always came from people doing dumb things (like setting near where the red flag zone would be in that open area with the wall behind them).

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GriftGFX

Since 7009 Days

lol claymores

In reply to

Acert93

Since 6979 Days

Forge: Multiplayer... FireFight... Campaign.

Bungie, make it happen.

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Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

RC_Master

Since 6911 Days

Posted by Acert93

I am not going to pretend not to insult your gaming manhood... but RC, you were missing out if you never mastered the brutal Mauler+Melee combo.

Well, it is quite a while since I've played anything other than dexp weekends on Halo 3. That said, I would still always prefer to have a shotgun. I don't remember off the top of my head any maps that feature Maulers where shotguns aren't. And the map is actually useful to have a shogtun. Uh, maybe the bridge one? With the two mancannons?

Jesting aside, the mauler, and dual maulers in particular, were insanely powerfull-hardly useless in the "sandbox" if you knew how to use it. No offense. The needler actually filled a nice role

It had its role sure, but I'd rather stick with an AR and BR than swap out the AR for a needler. It was very specific though.

and the Covenant Carbine had a very high ROF and was extremely effective in skilled hands.

I know. But it barely appeared on any maps, and where it did, the BR was much more plentiful, and was an easier to use and pretty much as effective weapon.

Spikers were also quite nasty up close and often found in pairs in maps (i.e. dual wield).

rather keep an AR for close range and have my grenades easier access.

And in the context of the "sandbox" plasma pistols were one of the BEST weapons against vehicles.

I know! I play BTB! But that was about all it was good for, and even then, it was still pretty hard to actually hit a vehicle with one.

As for calling it a sandbox... I love the term coinage but most Halo maps are more Quake/UT the sandbox ;) I know Bungie likes these kinds of terms but unless we are going to start calling MW and BF sandbox as well then I am not sure the term should be abused. If anything Halo games have been more Quake than Sandbox. I suggest Bungie call it the toybox as GTA owns the Sandbox (TM) name :P

'Sandbox' or 'the sandbox' in relation to Halo means the collection of 'stuff' that you can interact with in the game. NOT that it is a 'sandbox game'

It is a confusing term to be sure.

Also, don't know what people around here thought, but I get the feeling that Network Test 1 (Generator Defence) is a test for their synchronous matchmaking model and associated matchmaking. Where do they use synchronous connections? Campaign and Firefight. If you managed to download one of those films that was broken out of the level barriers (heres the one I used if you had a code for the beta you can still access theatre) and fly high above, you could quite clearly see that Overlook was a map that was cut out of a longer multi-stage loaded campaign level.

So asking for 'make generator defence 4v4' isn't going to happen in its current form I don't think :P

In reply to

[quote=Acert93]
I am not going to pretend not to insult your gaming manhood... but RC, you were missing out if you never mastered the brutal Mauler+Melee combo. [/quote]
Well, it is quite a while since I've played anything other than dexp weekends on Halo 3. That said, I would still always prefer to have a shotgun. I don't remember off the top of my head any maps that feature Maulers where shotguns aren't. And the map is actually useful to have a shogtun. Uh, maybe the bridge one? With the two mancannons?

[quote]Jesting aside, the mauler, and dual maulers in particular, were insanely powerfull-hardly useless in the "sandbox" if you knew how to use it. No offense. The needler actually filled a nice role[/quote]It had its role sure, but I'd rather stick with an AR and BR than swap out the AR for a needler. It was very specific though.

[quote] and the Covenant Carbine had a very high ROF and was extremely effective in skilled hands.[/quote] I know. But it barely appeared on any maps, and where it did, the BR was much more plentiful, and was an easier to use and pretty much as effective weapon.

[quote] Spikers were also quite nasty up close and often found in pairs in maps (i.e. dual wield).[/quote]rather keep an AR for close range and have my grenades easier access. 
[quote]And in the context of the "sandbox" plasma pistols were one of the BEST weapons against vehicles.[/quote] I know! I play BTB! But that was about all it was good for, and even then, it was still pretty hard to actually hit a vehicle with one.

[quote]As for calling it a sandbox... I love the term coinage but most Halo maps are more Quake/UT the sandbox ;) I know Bungie likes these kinds of terms but unless we are going to start calling MW and BF sandbox as well then I am not sure the term should be abused. If anything Halo games have been more Quake than Sandbox. I suggest Bungie call it the toybox as GTA owns the Sandbox (TM) name :P[/quote]'Sandbox' or 'the sandbox'  in relation to Halo means the collection of 'stuff' that you can interact with in the game. NOT that it is a 'sandbox game'

It is a confusing term to be sure.

Also, don't know what people around here thought, but I get the feeling that Network Test 1 (Generator Defence) is a test for their synchronous matchmaking model and associated matchmaking. Where do they use synchronous connections? Campaign and Firefight. If you managed to download one of those films that was broken out of the level barriers ([url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=1209017]heres the one I used[/url] if you had a code for the beta you can still access theatre) and fly high above, you could quite clearly see that Overlook was a map that was cut out of a longer multi-stage loaded campaign level.

So asking for 'make generator defence 4v4' isn't going to happen in its current form I don't think :P

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