You three are ALL WRONG. YES.

First of all, no one should ever even bring the idea of a Halo MP-only game.........don't even give them the fucking idea.

Optimus, you are wrong to say that Shadowrun flopped because it is MP only, it sucks because it sucks and that's all. I guess counter examples are simply unnecessary.

If Halo had not an SP campaign WITH MP, it would not be what it is today. Why? Simply because they would probably not have made another Halo. You are right with that Op.

Grift, you are wrong because you brought this crazy idea that is simply disgusting. That's just sick dude. And it wouldn't sell as a Halo with MP and SP. It just wouldn't. And I'm one that would not buy it :)

You are right in that Shadowrun is a flop simply because it is though.

Phaeton, you are wrong, and not only because of the double space after typing "What?"

Halo 2 outsold Halo 1 because of the whole package. You are in a way suggesting that if they had made Halo 2 MP only, it would sell as well as it did. It sold so well because of the incredible marketing, and because people wanted to finish the fight and all that, see more of the Halo world. I think it's crazy to think that people don't care about the SP part of Halo.

You are right that in that MP gives ANY game its long lasting appeal and replayability.

Overall, Halo is a game that needs BOTH parts to be the incredible success it is. If it weren't because of that, we probably would be left with a Halo......and that's it, not sequels.

Anyways, I'm wrong because.......my avatar says so :(

You keep telling yourself that. The singleplayer story and the expectations of what that singleplayer story would be like especially after the first halo has and will always be the trojan horse and biggest contributer to why Halo is as big as it is now.

Halo would be nothing without its story and universe. If the first Halo launched without that singleplayer story and was an mp only game Halo most definitely wouldn't be the hot property that it is right now for Microsoft. Hell the Xbox itself probably wouldn't even have been nearly as successful. The MP may have been what got people sticking around on Xbox Live giving it so much more lasting appeal in Halo 2, but without the singleplayer story, characters, universe Halo would be a far more insignificant piece of intellectual property.

What you are suggesting is Halo without the SP would've been the juggernaut it is today even garnering more attention than the likes of quake, unreal or counter-strike if it wasn't for that SP story? Sorry I just can't see that. I'm not saying the MP isn't good, but I know very well why its as popular as it is today. Even right now the SP is whats carrying the majority of the excitement for Halo 3 not the MP. We've seen how people reacted to the "ever so precious" MP merely because it didn't meet their graphical expectations and I'm suppose to believe that very same MP would've gotten the attention it got if it were never for the Singleplayer? I say again no way jose. The SP MADE Halo the MP just gave people a reason to stick around.

I agree Lebato. Maybe Shadowrun sucked for other reasons then =P

I don't think Grift is all his senses today. I would say [and hope] his account got jacked by a mad man.

I agree, seriously, not in a million years would halo be as successful as it is without its SP, Lets not forget why Halo 2 sold so much, it was because of the SP in Halo 1 not its MP and i doubt that even half of the people who own halo 2 play on XBL.

p.s. Shadowrun flopped because the game sucks

i agree with opt on this and pretty much everything else :p

if halo came out like shadow run did with no story or history about the Halo universe, i think it would have tanked.

Nah thats not what I'm trying to say Grift I love battlefield. I love Counter-Strike I was there day one when steam came out of beta trying to get myself a low steamid like the low wonid I use to have and played with a number of competitive teams in counter-strike for years ever since beta cause I loved the competition of it all so much.

I absolutely adored Quake III. I love a lot of MP only games, but I think we've hit a stage now where its extremely difficult (especially on consoles) to establish new mp only properties and have them go on to major commercial success without some sort of hook or trojan horse. In Halo's case I like the universe so much that I feel its the one thing that makes Halo unique and seperates it from everything else out there. Without it I think Halo loses a major advantage.

I say Bungie continue facilitating their growing online gaming community by packaging upgraded iterations of their MP with epic singleplayer components. It has worked wonders for them so far. I don't want to see Halo come down to the same level playing field as games like UT. As you said UT's single is tacked on. Pretty soon we could end up seeing tacked on Halo SP's if the MP doesn't take off the way they expect and I'd hate to see that happen to the franchise.

I loved (past tense) the UT games I think they are old news for me now I've played the same game for years and now it has more vehicles, weapons and better graphics. Thats what I think of UT now not sure why it lost its luster for me.

Pretty much maybe its because I've become such a big fan of the Halo universe and the SP and its characters that the very thought of it losing that aspect seems like a disaster to me. I'm not saying MP only games can't work I just think Halo MP only probably wouldn't work nearly as well as some might hope because we've gotten so use to the SP component. I think other MP only games can work just fine its halo specifically that I thought it would be a bad move for.

Shadowrun the FPS MP only move on that sorta annoyed me too because I don't think thats what it deserved to be. It deserved a lot better than that. Its like what should've been really cool ended up seeming like a low budget title.

Perhaps Halo MP only would have some sort of shot at success, but like.. anything less than 1 or 2 million might not be a flop in traditional sense, but compared to what Halo is pulling in now it would be a major disappointment for the series. I'm just going on the very fact that I would've personally completely ignored Halo if the SP component had never been there. We wouldn't even have the books could you imagine the horror? =P

Yea thats definitely true, but I suspect it would definitely have a negative effect on the perception of the series from that day on. It would seem as if it is no more and now they are attempting to milk it.

I actually started agreeing with you grift since my last post. I cleared up the misconception that it was a MP only game hate campaign that I was on. (I know you didn't say that directly, but who knows it might've led to that)

I was actually pc only gamer ever since 6th grade all the way up to 2005 when the 360 came out is when I started losing interest in pc gaming. It obviously had a lot to do with the fact that I totally want to spend all my time with sakaguchi's titles. Guy hasn't made games in forever and when I saw him back that was it :) I use to OCCASSIONALLY go to consoles for specific games, but when I was done with em it was right back to the pc.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to go ahead and agree with Grift on this. All of you are taking his comments waaaay out of context.

In one of his posts, he clearly alludes to the fact that there's a HUGE install base of Halo fans out there, plenty of whom play the MP, and that a MP-only Halo would do well because there's *already* a large audience for it. To try and claim that if Halo had been MP-only and as a result would have failed is to completely circumvent what he was talking about.

Well I don't want to get back into it , but I'll leave by saying certain comments the way they were delivered made it look like SP wasn't a big part of the game's mp success.

"Wow!

Halo's MP success has almost nothing to do with its campaign. Nothing."

What others were trying to say is that Halo SP did have a lot to do with the success of MP and thats where things spiraled out of control for a bit then we went on to state just how important SP has been to the game establishing itself the way it has today and sought to put into context what Halo's success would've been without the SP as a way of conveying what the likelihood of a halo MP this successful without the trojan horse that is SP. In my opinion I don't think there was much misunderstanding of what was said.

I think maybe my introduction of Shadowrun into the convo might've caused a bit of confusion, but other than that I thought responses for the most part were approriate. Thats all I'll say on it for the rest of the thread really gonna move on to other things.

dude! those are so sweet and i'm so getting 2 of those!

i already have my Halo 360 reserved too :)

You seem to be getting a bit touchy over such a simple discussion.. Was it really that serious? You made comments people responded to them and you seem to be getting unnecessarily mad about the whole thing. Nobody put any words in your mouth you were quoted directly.

I simply clarified with ron what was said I'm not trying to get in some last word. What I was saying was fairly easy to backup your statements on the otherhand were a bit higher on the difficulty scale and judging by the animosity I guess you didn't handle it so well. [img]http://www.neogaf.com/forum/images/smilies/laugh.gif

I do agree that saying that the SP played no part in the success of the MP is stretching it a bit. I mean, the first Halo created an insane amount of brand recognition, and I don't doubt that plenty of people bought Halo 2 for the SP and were pleasantly surprised by the MP. However, to think in any way that a MP-only Halo wouldn't clean up seems extremely short-sited.

How many people were horribly turned off by Halo 2's story(for lord knows what reason...) and after one playthrough turned to the MP? How many people *still* play Halo 2 online? How many people bought/rented Crackdown just to play the MP-only Beta?

Then you have all the people who bitch about games not being worth their money if there isn't a MP mode. Those people probably ONLY buy games for the MP as for them, MP=value. A super-refined, feature-rich MP-only Halo would "flop" as you put it? Not a chance.

WOW just WOW to the last page and a half.

"Like saying that a MP only Halo game would flop, right?"

Like I said... far easier to backup thanHalo's MP right now is considered a really big deal in the console space as a direct result of the amazing buzz created from the game's SP story, characters and universe. So when you say things such as..this is what you are basically saying.Saying Halo's MP success had nothing to do with its campaign is suggesting exactly that.It sorta does when you say this..Apparently you don't..I'm glad you believe that, but you clearly suggested otherwise earlier..

[quote]That sounds to me like you are discrediting a major aspect of that package. I'm just interpreting what you said Grift how else would you have me look at it? Halo MP is obviously apart of what makes it a success and I believe strongly the campaign is the biggest reason for the MP's success so when you suggest the Campaign has almost nothing to do with the MP's success that to me translates as you heavily discrediting a major piece of the entire package. So for you to suddenly speak about the total package now in a way goes against what you said earlier.

I feel you were totally fine when we were just disagreeing on the likelihood of an extremely successful MP only Halo game, but you went and stated the campaign had nothing to do with the MP's success and thats what caused further disagreements. That isn't in any shape or form misquoting what you said.

And in regards to backing up the MP complaints comment despite the number of people that played it online it was generally viewed by a great deal of people as disappointing and even left some underwhelmed or bummed about the SP (I surely wasn't one of em). Suddenly SP info starts rolling in and suddenly more and more comments such as "concerns left by MP are unfounded" "worried after playing beta? No need" are popping all over suggesting the MP beta was a disappointing for quite a few.

Yes the multiplayer may be a very key aspect to halo's success and it will continue to be, but SP is very clearly the main event. If roles were switched and Halo released with no MP Halo 2 would still have been a major success even without MP (although not as much). Its the MP portion of the game if left campaignless from the first Halo that would've had trouble cementing itself as a major franchise.