PGR4 flying under the radar?

Acert93 - Mr. Bad Cop
Acert93
Since 6975 Days
My guess is they are using VGA cables and are getting an upscaled image.
In reply to

My Blog: http://www.NextGenThinkTank.com

LEBATO - IS WRONG
LEBATO
Since 7126 Days
Posted by Jollipop
Yea i meant was it a photo mode taking with a camera, but im guessing not as it still has the hud and everything else.

Sometimes off screen pics makes things look better.
NO NO NO. About 95% of the time, or any decently taken off-screen shot from an HDTV make the game look a lot better than it actually does. That pic above looks nice, but it would be unplayable that way, the same applies to every game. I accept the game doesn't look like that, but at the same times, it's not doing justice to some things the game does really really good. You basically see no details in that pic thanks to the overly obscure contrast.

@Acert and IGN

Fucking idiots honestly. What is the prettiest racing game on 360 then, Forza? lol.

Come on. If they criticize the jaggies on cars, wtf does that make FM2 then? A hacksaw in full motion?

But yeah, the cities do look photo-realistic enough, they got that right.
In reply to

Nothing more rude than trying to be the internet diplomat and abusing of power.

LEBATO - IS WRONG
LEBATO
Since 7126 Days
Posted by Acert93
My guess is they are using VGA cables and are getting an upscaled image.
My guess is that they are blind and not giving credit where it is due--HONESTLY.
In reply to

Nothing more rude than trying to be the internet diplomat and abusing of power.

LEBATO - IS WRONG
LEBATO
Since 7126 Days
In reply to

Nothing more rude than trying to be the internet diplomat and abusing of power.

kenshin2418 - Junior Detective
kenshin2418
Since 6980 Days
wow, the Tesla Roadster vs Testarossa event was unexpected. The Tesla is like dead silent, yet it be a beast!
In reply to

Jeanne D'Arc is the Best RPG this year

GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Since 7004 Days
Posted by kenshin2418
wow, the Tesla Roadster vs Testarossa event was unexpected. The Testa is like dead silent, yet it be a beast!
Yeah.. I want one. Has great range for an electric motor too. Around 200 miles on a single charge.. which only takes a few hours to juice up.

The great thing about stored power is -- it can come from any source. It's future proof. They're expensive though. 100k+ and there's a waiting list to match the price. Pretty awesome efficiency all around though. An impressive car and a proof of concept if you ask me.. proof that electric motors can haul ass.
In reply to
Jin187
Jin187
Since 6748 Days
Posted by kenshin2418
wow, the Tesla Roadster vs Testarossa event was unexpected. The Tesla is like dead silent, yet it be a beast!
Lol, that car is awesome, Revs up to 15,000 RPM yet so quiet, it only has 2 gears too.
In reply to

How Do You Silence the Millions of haters out there?

Create the Greatest game ever made...

Halo 3... Believe.

GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Since 7004 Days
http://www.teslamotors.com/

It's a pretty badass car. I didn't even know it was in PGR4 until I played it.. I would love to test drive (or own) one in real life. It's the greenest sports car you could possibly buy. I'd rather own a Tesla Roadster than the Elise it's modeled after.. even though it costs like 100,000 more (if you include the security deposit to get on the waiting list).

Pretty badass though. I'm glad there are motor companies abroad that are experimenting with advancements in stored energy. Ethanol and battery power will never receive serious research in the states because our automotive industry is in the grips of big oil. The Chevy Volt is a freaking JOKE. "Gas friendly to gas free" my ass Chevy! It's a plug-in hybrid.. yet they call it an "extended range electric motor." What a load of shit.

40 miles w/o Gasoline. Who are they fooling?

/rant
In reply to
kenshin2418 - Junior Detective
kenshin2418
Since 6980 Days
Posted by GriftGFX
It's a plug-in hybrid.
Up, you said Hybrid. Now I get to post this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3UDyuPgEwY


but yeah the Tesla is pretty badass in the game.
In reply to

Jeanne D'Arc is the Best RPG this year

UrukHaiPT
UrukHaiPT
Since 6532 Days
Played demo, and really enjoyed it, bikes are cool :D

Since i didnt get PGR3, tempted to get this one :)
In reply to
roxwell - PuS3Y
roxwell
Since 6953 Days
Not sure if this as been posted?

a comparison vid of PGR3 & 4

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?i...
In reply to

Back, sack and crack

Jollipop
Jollipop
Since 6887 Days
They are so close its hard to say which is better (small pic mind you), the lighting in PGR3 is much more dynamic looking.
In reply to

Marumaro for the WIN !!

Jin187
Jin187
Since 6748 Days
Posted by Jollipop
They are so close its hard to say which is better (small pic mind you), the lighting in PGR3 is much more dynamic looking.
Thats exactly what i've been saying, especially in the darker areas. PGR3 also has higher resoltion textures, has reflecting windscreens (on in car view) and it seems smoother to me, but PGR4 has far better AF, better self shadowing and the dashboards are improved. Overall i think PGR4 doesnt look better than PGR3 but it doesnt look worse either, to be honest i expected more after 2 years.
In reply to

How Do You Silence the Millions of haters out there?

Create the Greatest game ever made...

Halo 3... Believe.

palamede
palamede
Since 6758 Days
Well, PGR3 is not 720p and its reflections are not as nice as PGR4's which is the only game I know in which other cars reflect in the carbody ingame !
Besides, PGR4 has better AA, PGR3's weakpoint IMO. Besides, I do not miss the overbloom effect. Most next gen games have this overbloom issue IMO.
In reply to

Graphics whore !

Inflatable
Inflatable
Since 7642 Days
Posted by Jin187
Thats exactly what i've been saying, especially in the darker areas. PGR3 also has higher resoltion textures, has reflecting windscreens (on in car view) and it seems smoother to me, but PGR4 has far better AF, better self shadowing and the dashboards are improved. Overall i think PGR4 doesnt look better than PGR3 but it doesnt look worse either, to be honest i expected more after 2 years.
Maybe this whole 'developers can get more out of a gameconsole after a periode of time' thing is a bit overrated?

Sure they can implement new discovered optimizations etc, but it's still the same hardware both games run on, and there's only so much hardware can do.. Maybe there's just not that much more to be taken out of the Xbox 360 GPU, and that's why PGR4 doesn't look much different from PGR3..

It's bassicly the same as with PC (videocard) drivers etc.. They can cause a performance increase sometimes, but the differences are never night&day.. It's doesn't all of a sudden make the hardware run 2x as fast or something.. Unless offcourse there a really big driver issue, then sometimes you can see big 50+% performance increases, but those situations are rare..
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http://www.cyberwarriors.nl
http://home.xmsnet.nl/bigbear/fiat124.jpg

LEBATO - IS WRONG
LEBATO
Since 7126 Days
@Inflatable.........NO

"Maybe this whole 'developers can get more out of a gameconsole after a periode of time' thing is a bit overrated?"

Just no. And yes, it can be a day to night difference.
In reply to

Nothing more rude than trying to be the internet diplomat and abusing of power.

Acert93 - Mr. Bad Cop
Acert93
Since 6975 Days
I think the issue is diminishing returns.

Imagine a wheel in polygons where each generation there is an 8x increase in power.

Gen 1: 4 polygons
Gen 2: 32 polygons
Gen 3: 256 polygons
Gen 4: 2048 polygons

Gen 1 to 2 is absolutely massive. Gen 2 to 3 is large, but not as noticable. Some blemishes, but very small in worse case scenarios. Gen 3 to 4 is very minor with only a cleaning up of worst case scenarios.

Now broaden this concept. Take shadows. You go from a blob, to a rough shape of the object, to a perspective correct siloutte, to one with self shadows, and then soft shadows, and finally proper occlusion and fading. The more "correct" you get the less future improvements matter.

So PGR4 has soft shadows, realtime reflections, and so forth. Technically these are a huge leap in technique as well as performance demand. [Sorry inflatable, go check a PC game where you can enable and disable soft shadows and THEN come tell me that the performance required is minimal]

The problem is that most gamers are quite casual in regards to IQ and graphic aren't able to appreciate that soft shadows from hard shadows is as big of a leap as 4 polygons to 32 polygons.

If you have a PC game running at 30fps and then do the following:

+ Increase resolution 50%
+ Increase AF
+ Go from static geometry reflections with no MSAA to realtime reflections with MSAA
+ Go from harder, lower resolution / relatively poorly filtered shadows to a fine filtered (VSM?) soft shadow
+ Enabled an intensive particle system (rain/snow, puddles, ground reflections, smoke, etc)
+ New maps with more geometric complexity than previous content

That PC game won't be running at 30fps if it was GPU bound.

BC absolutely got a LOT more out of PGR4. The problem is people aren't familiar with the demands of the improvements. Put in the context of enabling these features on the PC, though, is a perfect example of how BC was able to take hugely demanding features and increase the resolution AND keep the same performance levels.

That sounds like getting more out of the hardware to me.
In reply to

My Blog: http://www.NextGenThinkTank.com

Jollipop
Jollipop
Since 6887 Days
Posted by Inflatable
Maybe this whole 'developers can get more out of a gameconsole after a periode of time' thing is a bit overrated?

Sure they can implement new discovered optimizations etc, but it's still the same hardware both games run on, and there's only so much hardware can do.. Maybe there's just not that much more to be taken out of the Xbox 360 GPU, and that's why PGR4 doesn't look much different from PGR3..

It's bassicly the same as with PC (videocard) drivers etc.. They can cause a performance increase sometimes, but the differences are never night&day.. It's doesn't all of a sudden make the hardware run 2x as fast or something.. Unless offcourse there a really big driver issue, then sometimes you can see big 50+% performance increases, but those situations are rare..
Well I think that may be true of the Xbox and the Xbox 360, but they PS2 and PS3 are very different, because of the way their CPU's are it takes much longer to get to grips coding to them.

Looking at first gen PS2 titles compared to the lastest offerings their is a huge difference.

Because the 360 and the Xbox were/are so asy to develop for its easier for developers to get at that power faster.
In reply to

Marumaro for the WIN !!

Acert93 - Mr. Bad Cop
Acert93
Since 6975 Days
Jolli, the 360 has a lot more potential than tapped in the first year just by the nature of multicore and the hurdles and adjustments developers are making. Ease of development and extracting performance aren't always the same thing.
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My Blog: http://www.NextGenThinkTank.com

RAZurrection
RAZurrection
Since 6877 Days
Posted by Jollipop
Looking at first gen PS2 titles compared to the lastest offerings their is a huge difference.

Because the 360 and the Xbox were/are so asy to develop for its easier for developers to get at that power faster.
PS2 had 7 years to flower, Xbox about 3...plus the initial PS2 games were really quite bad, Xbox launched with the pretty PGR, Halo and DOA3 amongst some 2nd gen PS2 ports.
In reply to
Jin187
Jin187
Since 6748 Days
Posted by RAZurrection
PS2 had 7 years to flower, Xbox about 3...plus the initial PS2 games were really quite bad, Xbox launched with the pretty PGR, Halo and DOA3 amongst some 2nd gen PS2 ports.
Yeah and PGR2 looks much better than PGR and the same with Halo 2
In reply to

How Do You Silence the Millions of haters out there?

Create the Greatest game ever made...

Halo 3... Believe.

RAZurrection
RAZurrection
Since 6877 Days
Posted by Jin187
Yeah and PGR2 looks much better than PGR and the same with Halo 2
Yep and that was only 2nd & 3rd gen stuff, if Xbox lasted until 2007/8 we would have seen some further leaps.
In reply to
Jollipop
Jollipop
Since 6887 Days
Yea but not much, the Xbox was basically a PC in a box, and that was why dev's could get to grips with the hardware, being closed box only added to speeding things up.

Sure the Xenon is tri-cored, but its still not in the same league as the Cell, in terms of development difficulty, trust Acert to take something out of context.
In reply to

Marumaro for the WIN !!

Acert93 - Mr. Bad Cop
Acert93
Since 6975 Days
No, I just trust you don't know what you are talking about in most situations relating to technology.

Like I said, ease of development != Extracting Performance. Those concepts can overlap, but they are not the same. The Xbox 360 has better tools and is easier to work with than the Xbox. But getting peak performance from the 360 is much, much more difficult. You have to thread your shaders, create a robust task model for CPU thread utilization, explore a programmable shading model that has a slew of techniques still outside the typically software pipeline, and so forth. And the little thing called Tiling...

In general you will find that extracting peak performance from Cell is easier than from EE; and extracting peak performance from Xenon is much more diffuclt than from the x86 Coppermine Xbox CPU. It isn't a neat

EE/Cell > harder > Xbox/Xenon

It is more

Cell > easier > EE
x86 > easier > Xenon

As much problems developers are having with Cell, EE was much, much worse. The reason most didn't see it is because the PS2 was the lead platform all generation. The Xbox was limited by the PS2 in many ways.

We are seeing more issues this gen because the 360 was the lead sku (that is changing) and PS3 -- not just Cell, but RSX too -- just don't handle 360 code/assets well. But the PS3 is MUCH easier to work with than the PS2.

So grouping the PS3 with PS2 really isn't represenative of the issues. Ditto the Xbox and Xbox 360 as the 360 has a lot more headroom in 2007 than the Xbox did in 2003.

Basically, it isn't as simple as you describe it. But leave it to Jolli to take something out of context.
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My Blog: http://www.NextGenThinkTank.com

LEBATO - IS WRONG
LEBATO
Since 7126 Days
Well, without the technical graphics knowledge to back up what I say, it seems like common knowledge to me that games do get a lot better looking over time on all consoles, including the Xbox and Xbox 360.
In reply to

Nothing more rude than trying to be the internet diplomat and abusing of power.

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