PGR4 flying under the radar?

Jin187
Jin187
Since 6757 Days
Posted by Acert93
What I find interesting about the graphics comments is that PGR4 is 720p (instead of 1024x600), has MSAA and less aliasing (applied to more surfaces), higher AF levels, realtime reflections that include dynamic objects (and no aliasing and more perspective correct), better particles, and improvements to texturing and yet I still see quite a few comments about it looking the same as PGR3.

Artistically they the same. But PGR4 has added a lot of IQ enhancements. And yet people don't notice.

Which goes back to my theory that AA, AF, and general IQ are secondary to console gamers in the view of many developers (which I have heard). Forums tend to be the place where it is drawn out, and only due to console war stuff.

I think Halo 3 is probably the shining example of this (poor IQ in a number of areas, specifically AF and AA) and people don't seem to care or notice. The fact a number of people (not just Jin) are saying PGR4 is graphically pretty much PGR3 indicates some people just don't notice these things. PGR3 was a graphicallya dvanced racer in 2005 and still holds its own... but still quite interesting.
Yes it sounds better on paper, but when the game is actually running, there really isnt much between the two apart from the better anti aliasing. PGR4 cities look richer and more lively and the dashboard on the car models look improved but... i've found that PGR3 has better lighting, runs smoother and using photomode, i've also noticed that PGR3's road textures are of a much higher resolution.
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LEBATO - IS WRONG
LEBATO
Since 7135 Days
@Jin, you don't like the bikes!?!?

@Acert

I agree, and I don't get it. They are obviously improved a whole lot. Car models are the only thing I would consider relatively equal, and by that I mean in terms of how they are modeled, in terms of polygons. Yet some things like the tire thread, and details inside the car look VERY improved.

Jaggies are improved a whole lot, A LOT. Shadowing is also very improved, remember in PGR3 the in-car camera shadowing and how jaggie and dark sometimes it was? Well that's gone now, shadows are much smoother and realistic.

Texture pop in has improved a lot. In PGR3 every race you started had some minor pop in, on buildings that is. That has been reduced by about 90%

Reflections look extremely smooth and again, less jaggies.

AF improved, and unlike many and like Acert, I believe this is something that improves IQ tremendously and IT SHOWS.

Smoke looks really awesome, the best out there.

The resolution increased.

Lighting is more realistic now. It only takes a run in the snowy nurburgring to notice this. Overall it is a much more realistic lighting.

And I love how people all over the place (not just this forum) like to say things like "PGR3 with nice weather"........come on, nice weather? Is that what you say to the best weather effects in a racing game? This is so very understated.

A wet car makes for an absolutely incredible amount of stuff going on at once. It's not only that the rain looks nice, but how it is affected by lighting, this goes for snow too.
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Nothing more rude than trying to be the internet diplomat and abusing of power.

GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Since 7013 Days
I think it LOOKS great.. even plays great. I'm just a little disappointed by the career design and by some of the design choices in general. In my brief time with it.. every corner just feels too much like the last one.. everything is rounded out to make lines easier and more natural. I'm not sure I like that.

The interface for everything I've seen in the game so far, career, garage, purchasing cars.. etc seems like a step backwards from PGR3. I'm sure it's great.. but I was a little disappointed from what I saw so far. I'm probably going to pick it up still.. but I would have preferred they stick to PGR3's career interface.

As for bike handling -- it's fine. I would have preferred to see a setup with a front/rear break.. more like MotoGP.. but they work and they feel pretty solid.
In reply to
Jin187
Jin187
Since 6757 Days
Just did the invitation race on nurb in the snow, was so hard but it looked sooo beautiful.

@Lebato, i really hate the bikes, they feel horrible. Also i agree with the improvements of PGR4, but do you not think PGR3 has better use of HDR lighting, better road textures and runs smoother?

I think both games have thier merits in different ways which is why i say its very similar in terms of overall graphics.
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How Do You Silence the Millions of haters out there?

Create the Greatest game ever made...

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GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Since 7013 Days
I can't say I noticed any problems with the tarmac. I actually thought it looked really good.
In reply to
Acert93 - Mr. Bad Cop
Acert93
Since 6984 Days
Grift, if you are far more interested in FM2, maybe we can work out a trade down the line if I get the bundle?
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My Blog: http://www.NextGenThinkTank.com

Acert93 - Mr. Bad Cop
Acert93
Since 6984 Days


In reply to

My Blog: http://www.NextGenThinkTank.com

LEBATO - IS WRONG
LEBATO
Since 7135 Days
Posted by GriftGFX
I think it LOOKS great.. even plays great. I'm just a little disappointed by the career design and by some of the design choices in general. In my brief time with it.. every corner just feels too much like the last one.. everything is rounded out to make lines easier and more natural. I'm not sure I like that.

The interface for everything I've seen in the game so far, career, garage, purchasing cars.. etc seems like a step backwards from PGR3. I'm sure it's great.. but I was a little disappointed from what I saw so far. I'm probably going to pick it up still.. but I would have preferred they stick to PGR3's career interface.

As for bike handling -- it's fine. I would have preferred to see a setup with a front/rear break.. more like MotoGP.. but they work and they feel pretty solid.
Hmn....I don't know how much you have played the game, but I just can't see how this interface is worse by any means. Everything is more easily accessible. And like I said before, this game has a sense of reward, something PGR3 was lacking. PGR3 was fun, but cars were so easy to get and required no effort at all that getting them was not an event to remember.

I personally really like how they did the traditional arcade PLUS career mode. I think invitationals are just always very fun, I'm always looking forward to the next one. Again, something missing in PGR3.

Overall, this game is truly something special for me. I think it has all the qualities of a great racing game. Along with FM2, PGR4 is the best racing game this generation so far IMO, and really not much else comes close.
Posted by Jin187
Just did the invitation race on nurb in the snow, was so hard but it looked sooo beautiful.
Hard? I'm playing on normal, and I thought it wasn't hard at all, I finished the race more than 1 minute before due or something like that. I thought it was amazing though, and did you see the replay? WOW!
@Lebato, i really hate the bikes, they feel horrible. Also i agree with the improvements of PGR4, but do you not think PGR3 has better use of HDR lighting, better road textures and runs smoother?
Why do you feel the bikes are horrible? I would like some things done better, like less jerkiness when accelerating from a full stop, but while racing I think they are really awesome. I think they nailed this aspect very well.

But hey, you can also ignore them for the most part, although I know that alternative kind of sucks.

I don't think PGR3 has better lighting, not at all. Check the night tracks. It looks more natural and doesn't make the cars overly shiny. I also don't think PGR3 runs smoother at all. How so? I see both of them exactly the same here. Both run at 30fps with no drops in framerate to be a problem (I have had that happen ONCE so far only), and both have the nice motion blur :D

It's not like FM2's replays where every single time a car goes off the track means severe framerate problems

As for better road textures, I haven't done what you did with photomode there, but I can tell you that in replays, PGR4's road textures look better thanks to the addition AF. I have both at hand, try to go back to PGR3 when you get a chance and compare the replays, it is then that PGR4 improved AF shines.

But then again I watch pretty much every other replay in this game. They are just incredibly well done, best replays ever by FAR.
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Nothing more rude than trying to be the internet diplomat and abusing of power.

Optimusv2
Optimusv2
Since 6905 Days
Damn that first picture there is hot :o
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Jollipop
Jollipop
Since 6896 Days
[quote=Acert93]

What... is that photo mode cause mine don't look half as nice as that (especially the tarmac), I think my 360 is broken :(
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Marumaro for the WIN !!

Jin187
Jin187
Since 6757 Days
Posted by Jollipop
What... is that photo mode cause mine don't look half as nice as that (especially the tarmac), I think my 360 is broken :(
Neither does mine, my tarmac looks more like this...

Posted by LEBATO
I have both at hand, try to go back to PGR3 when you get a chance and compare the replays, it is then that PGR4 improved AF shines.
Yeh i have both, thats how i noticed all those things, but yeh i agree the AF does make alot of difference on replays.
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How Do You Silence the Millions of haters out there?

Create the Greatest game ever made...

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Phellan_Wolf
Phellan_Wolf
Since 6358 Days
The demo is finally available. Downloading now :)
In reply to
kenshin2418 - Junior Detective
kenshin2418
Since 6988 Days
Posted by Jollipop
What... is that photo mode cause mine don't look half as nice as that (especially the tarmac), I think my 360 is broken :(
nah, that's an off-screen photo.

and on another note, I believe 360 is too broken(close to it). There will be times where the road/cities won't load while I'm racing, so I will just be driving on grey. Then of course the song tracks featured in the game will skip(sometimes for more than 30secs), and my 360 will get pretty loud when it does. Yup, urge to kill rising.

Unless others are having this problem, which I doubt!
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Jeanne D'Arc is the Best RPG this year

Jollipop
Jollipop
Since 6896 Days
Posted by kenshin2418
nah, that's an off-screen photo.
Yea i meant was it a photo mode taking with a camera, but im guessing not as it still has the hud and everything else.

Sometimes off screen pics makes things look better.
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Marumaro for the WIN !!

Jin187
Jin187
Since 6757 Days
The fact that you cant restart an event after finishing is beginning to really annoy me, so many occasions where i miss the target so slightly without having enough time to press start, now i have to wait a whole year to do it again, its ridiculous.
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How Do You Silence the Millions of haters out there?

Create the Greatest game ever made...

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deftangel - Hot stuff!
deftangel
Since 6881 Days
A whole year?

That's pretty annoying. I remember PGR3 ticking me off because it took far too long to restart a race midgame. In PGR2 I had the button combination down to a fine art and doable in a second so if I properly screwed up I could restart quickly.

If the loading times are still lengthy and I can't restart after the race I'll be enraged!
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Jollipop
Jollipop
Since 6896 Days
Reloading a level isn't too bad (could do with being faster though), loading a new level can take quite a while though.
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Marumaro for the WIN !!

kenshin2418 - Junior Detective
kenshin2418
Since 6988 Days
Posted by Jin187
The fact that you cant restart an event after finishing is beginning to really annoy me, so many occasions where i miss the target so slightly without having enough time to press start, now i have to wait a whole year to do it again, its ridiculous.
ah ha!

I knew I wasn't the only one who thought that was retarded!
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Jeanne D'Arc is the Best RPG this year

Acert93 - Mr. Bad Cop
Acert93
Since 6984 Days
Posted by Jollipop
is that photo mode cause mine don't look half as nice as that (especially the tarmac)
In-game, off-screen. Off-screen helps with contrast (LCDs have really bad blacks, low contrast, and tend to be 6bit and have some ghosting). You guys need HD CRTs, Plasmas, or a nice projector with high contrast :P

I don't know why your tarmac wouldn't look like that (lest contrast) because that is in-game.
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Jollipop
Jollipop
Since 6896 Days
Posted by Acert93
or a nice projector with high contrast :P
I do (11'000:1) but im still not seeing it.
In reply to

Marumaro for the WIN !!

SimonM7 - The other mod's bitch
SimonM7
Since 7036 Days
One thing this HD gaming business has taught me is screw sharpness. Sharpness in every single case fucks up the image in some way. Now, if 720p actually WAS ninja sword sharp and anti aliasing and shadowing techniques were half decent in 9/10 games then we'd be talking, but it isn't, and they aren't.

No, sod sharpness and give me colour depth and contrast. I'm so ditching my LCD first chance I get and I'm buying either a plasma TV or a projector next. Considering how incredible GC Metroid looks even on my LCD, Wii games are gonna benefit even more from a lower res solution.

Of course games are in most cases drab and gray, contrast and colour aren't nearly as important as they could be, but with stuff like Sega Rally and Uncharted looking deliciously lush and colourful, I think it's a better bet all around. I sure miss actually having dark bits be dark for one thing. Condemned was like having hobos swimming in soup.
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Jollipop
Jollipop
Since 6896 Days
I agree, sharpness is nice as long as the picture is perfect, otherwise it will pick up on every crappy deatail there is and make them look 10 times worse. (jaggies being the biggest offender)
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Marumaro for the WIN !!

Acert93 - Mr. Bad Cop
Acert93
Since 6984 Days
Posted by IGN
PGR 4 takes you on a tour across the world. You'll race up the misty hills of Macau, battle through the narrow roads of London, and get some air on St. Petersburg's notorious humpback bridges. The cities look impeccable in PGR 4. Step into the photo mode to stop the action and check out all ten beautiful locales. While the cars do suffer from some serious jaggies, the models are spot-on. This isn't the prettiest racer on 360, but it's still a good-looking title.
Posted by IGN
Graphics
The car models look fantastic and you have to love having fully-realized dashboards. The cities also look beautiful. The jaggies, however, hurt considerably.
8.1 from IGN (8 in graphics), 9.1 from IGN UK.

Anyone else want to sound off on the aliasing comments. I have seen a bit of video and user pics, and the game is confirmed 2xMSAA 720p with motion blur and bloom HDR which further diminish aliasing.
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Jollipop
Jollipop
Since 6896 Days
This isn't the prettiest racer on 360, but it's still a good-looking title.
Well they have that wrong, I don't know of any Racer on any platform that is as good graphically as PGR4.

I agree with what they say about the cars having some jaggies but's hardly worth griping about when you compare it to PGR3.
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Marumaro for the WIN !!

Jin187
Jin187
Since 6757 Days
This isn't the prettiest racer on 360, but it's still a good-looking title.
Based on car models only, the only racing game on 360 i can think of that probably looks better than this is NFS Pro Street, but that isnt out yet, i think?But when you consider the backgrounds too, this game is simply unrivalled. Also about the jaggies, i cant really tell as i play on a HD projector which seems to make almost all games look really smooth.

Anyway, i think sometimes this game looks phenomenal, it like blows every racer on any platform out the water, but the are times where it looks very underwhelming, its a bit of a mixed bag really, although it is mostly great.
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