Red Dead Redemption! IT'S HERE!

Since 6950 Days

Posted by IRAIPT0IR

So because I didn't say predictable AI in my post Im implying that AI its less predictable?

Uh, yeah. Specifically calling people predictable while making no such reference to AI definitely sounds like you're implying that people are more predictable.

Posted by IRAIPT0IR

It all comes to skill and yes I think you need more skills to finish a game in the more hard difficulty that being good or awesome in a multiplayer mode in a game and I prove it to myself some time ago.

Funny, that's just wrong too. Being "awesome" is a relative statement. If you can go up against the best and always come out on top, than maybe you're on to something. Eating pub scrubs for breakfast doesn't make you awesome at a game though. Forcing yourself to finish Ninja Gaiden on its hardest difficulty level (through trial and error!) isn't really that impressive either, unless you can clear that shit without dying. It's all relative.

Posted by IRAIPT0IR

If lets say Itagaki made some of the best AI enemies in any game in the market,can you tell me ALL the people in a multi game will behave better than that AI enemie?,hell Gracious and Glorious in Bayonetta or fien Ryu In Ninja Gaiden I think there is maybe a handfull of people that play at the same level of randomness that them in a fighting game lets say like SF or any other fighting game IN the world so give them so credit there,they are not easy.

AI essentially cheats. It's not random. It just knows what you're doing before the game executes your input. It can be challenging, sure, but it will never be as satisfying (to me, phew, I almost missed that!) as taking on people who can actually think about things like strategy and tactics. There's a lot of cannon fodder out there online, but if you're only playing against scrubs of course you're going to think that you're fucking too awesome for multiplayer.

In reply to

[quote=IRAIPT0IR]So because I didn't say predictable AI in my post Im implying that AI its less predictable?[/quote]

Uh, yeah. Specifically calling [i]people[/i] predictable while making no such reference to AI definitely sounds like you're implying that people are more predictable.

[quote=IRAIPT0IR]It all comes to skill and yes I think you need more skills to finish a game in the more hard difficulty that being good or awesome in a multiplayer mode in a game and I prove it to myself some time ago.[/quote]

Funny, that's just wrong too. Being "awesome" is a relative statement. If you can go up against the best and always come out on top, than maybe you're on to something. Eating pub scrubs for breakfast doesn't make you awesome at a game though. Forcing yourself to finish Ninja Gaiden on its hardest difficulty level (through trial and error!) isn't really that impressive either, unless you can clear that shit without dying. It's all relative.

[quote=IRAIPT0IR]If lets say Itagaki made some of the best AI enemies in any game in the market,can you tell me ALL the people in a multi game will behave better than that AI enemie?,hell Gracious and Glorious in Bayonetta or fien Ryu In Ninja Gaiden I think there is maybe a handfull of people that play at the same level of randomness that them in a fighting game lets say like SF or any other fighting game IN the world so give them so credit there,they are not easy.[/quote]

AI essentially cheats. It's not random. It just knows what you're doing before the game executes your input. It can be challenging, sure, but it will never be as satisfying (to me, phew, I almost missed that!) as taking on people who can actually think about things like strategy and tactics. There's a lot of cannon fodder out there online, but if you're only playing against scrubs of course you're going to think that you're fucking too awesome for multiplayer.

IRAIPT0IR

Since 5658 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

Uh, yeah. Specifically calling people predictable while making no such reference to AI definitely sounds like you're implying that people are more predictable.

My bad then,I was not implying that however.

Funny, that's just wrong too. Being "awesome" is a relative statement. If you can go up against the best and always come out on top, than maybe you're on to something. Eating pub scrubs for breakfast doesn't make you awesome at a game though. Forcing yourself to finish Ninja Gaiden on its hardest difficulty level (through trial and error!) isn't really that impressive either, unless you can clear that shit without dying. It's all relative.

Im saying learnig all the AI patterns in order to finish it maybe no hurt or with teh original life bar or things like that.

AI essentially cheats. It's not random. It just knows what you're doing before the game executes your input. It can be challenging, sure, but it will never be as satisfying (to me, phew, I almost missed that!) as taking on people who can actually think about things like strategy and tactics. There's a lot of cannon fodder out there online, but if you're only playing against scrubs of course you're going to think that you're fucking too awesome for multiplayer.

That is essentially what people do too,knowing what you are going to do and anticipating your every move in the game no?

Beating those guys that think they will anticipate your move or your playstyle its more satisfying to you more as it is for me anticipating what the AI enemie in a game will try to do to me and defeat it with no damage or with the less effort and with the more coolest way possible.

In reply to

[quote=GriftGFX]Uh, yeah. Specifically calling people predictable while making no such reference to AI definitely sounds like you're implying that people are more predictable.[/quote]

My bad then,I was not implying that however.

[quote]Funny, that's just wrong too. Being "awesome" is a relative statement. If you can go up against the best and always come out on top, than maybe you're on to something. Eating pub scrubs for breakfast doesn't make you awesome at a game though. Forcing yourself to finish Ninja Gaiden on its hardest difficulty level (through trial and error!) isn't really that impressive either, unless you can clear that shit without dying. It's all relative.[/quote]
Im saying learnig all the AI patterns in order to finish it maybe no hurt or with teh original life bar or things like that.
[quote]
AI essentially cheats. It's not random. It just knows what you're doing before the game executes your input. It can be challenging, sure, but it will never be as satisfying (to me, phew, I almost missed that!) as taking on people who can actually think about things like strategy and tactics. There's a lot of cannon fodder out there online, but if you're only playing against scrubs of course you're going to think that you're fucking too awesome for multiplayer.[/quote]

That is essentially what people do too,knowing what you are going to do and anticipating your every move in the game no?

Beating those guys that think they will anticipate your move or your playstyle its more satisfying to you more as it is for me anticipating what the AI enemie in a game will try to do to me and defeat it with no damage or with the less effort and with the more coolest way possible.

FROM THE DARKNESS I DRAW MY STRENGTH!!

Ronsauce

Since 6935 Days

The mere fact you qualified people as being predictable is enough to imply that they are more predictable than AI within the context of your sentence. I mean, how do you feel about playing against UNpredictable people in multiplayer games? Why not leave out the "predictable" if you just don't like playing against people in general?

If lets say Itagaki made some of the best AI enemies in any game in the market,can you tell me ALL the people in a multi game will behave better than that AI enemie?

No, but people are able to learn and adapt and aren't as confined by programming as AI enemies are.

I spend more time learning patterns in some AI enemies than in people in online gaming not that it matters anyway real people will act of course more advanced

It's not necessarily a matter of how advanced or difficult something is, and I'm not trying to take away from the skill required to beat games like NG or Bayonetta on hard. However, the fact is you can learn patterns of AI enemies like you said you do. With respect to human players, some will have patterns you can learn, but in general, they will change play styles and strategies to counter you. Within the rules of a game, humans aren't bound by anything besides their own brains. AI players are bound by their comparatively limited programming.

Posted by GriftGFX

if you're only playing against scrubs of course you're going to think that you're fucking too awesome for multiplayer.

The thing is, you can play against a thousand scrubs who are easily dominated, but even though they suck, they can STILL be less predictable than the hardest AI enemies. I KNOW that incendiary shuriken ninjas(and just so we're clear, I'm not in any way claiming ISNs are the hardest AI enemies) are going to throw a ton of incendiary shurikens at me. I can predict that shit. It can still be hard. Conversely, scrubs might try some weird shit in Reach that I never would have thought of(and can't...else I'd be able to think of examples), but at the end of the day, I'll still be able to own them.

In reply to

The mere fact you qualified people as being predictable is enough to imply that they are more predictable than AI within the context of your sentence. I mean, how do you feel about playing against UNpredictable people in multiplayer games? Why not leave out the "predictable" if you just don't like playing against people in general?

[quote]If lets say Itagaki made some of the best AI enemies in any game in the market,can you tell me ALL the people in a multi game will behave better than that AI enemie?[/quote]
No, but people are able to learn and adapt and aren't as confined by programming as AI enemies are.

[quote]I spend more time learning patterns in some AI enemies than in people in online gaming not that it matters anyway real people will act of course more advanced[/quote]
It's not necessarily a matter of how advanced or difficult something is, and I'm not trying to take away from the skill required to beat games like NG or Bayonetta on hard. However, the fact is you can learn patterns of AI enemies like you said you do. With respect to human players, some will have patterns you can learn, but in general, they will change play styles and strategies to counter you. Within the rules of a game, humans aren't bound by anything besides their own brains. AI players are bound by their comparatively limited programming.

[quote=GriftGFX]if you're only playing against scrubs of course you're going to think that you're fucking too awesome for multiplayer. [/quote]
The thing is, you can play against a thousand scrubs who are easily dominated, but even though they suck, they can STILL be less predictable than the hardest AI enemies. I KNOW that incendiary shuriken ninjas(and just so we're clear, I'm not in any way claiming ISNs are the hardest AI enemies) are going to throw a ton of incendiary shurikens at me. I can predict that shit. It can still be hard. Conversely, scrubs might try some weird shit in Reach that I never would have thought of(and can't...else I'd be able to think of examples), but at the end of the day, I'll still be able to own them.

Zapp Brannigan: If we can hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

UrukHaiPT

Since 6477 Days

A music from the soundtrack:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz8JdBidRqs

Took a peak, soundtrack sounds really great.

In reply to

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL-X53ze5O0&feature=related

Frozpot

Since 6708 Days

Posted by Tinks

So no one else has this game yet?

They really need to get their servers up to speed. Free roam is a mess right now

Oh yeah. Absolutely awesome. GOTY contender for sure. I lost many hours without realizing it today. Soooo good. Once you get the hang of the horses and switching weapons(it's on a radial menu, but for some reason, I have some trouble with it). Nothing better than blowing out someones leg, then lassoing them and leaving them there hog-tied! Love the characters too...

In reply to

Oooh, Profound, isn't it?

SimonM7

Since 6973 Days

Posted by Frozpot

Once you get the hang of the horses

Quote of the year.

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http://modeseven.blogspot.com | Dominic and Simon - dyanamic games blog duo!
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Frozpot

Since 6708 Days

;)...

In reply to

Oooh, Profound, isn't it?

GriftGFX

Since 6950 Days

Posted by Frozpot

Once you get the hang of the horses

MTYF is already a pro.

In reply to

SimonM7

Since 6973 Days

MTYF is hung like a horse?

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Acert93

Since 6921 Days

So says My Little Pony.

In reply to

Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

SimonM7

Since 6973 Days

Aaah, we're in a weird references/puns gone too far carousel! I'd say I wanna get off, but that would probably just complicate things further in this context!

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Ronsauce

Since 6935 Days

All this horsing around is bound to stirrup an otherwise stable thread.

In reply to

Zapp Brannigan: If we can hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

GriftGFX

Since 6950 Days

Posted by Ronsauce

All this horsing around is bound to stirrup an otherwise stable thread.

*slow clap*

In reply to

blmbox

Since 6281 Days

Posted by Ronsauce

All this horsing around is bound to stirrup an otherwise stable thread.

Dammit, I lol'd. What has become of me...

In reply to

SimonM7

Since 6973 Days

Posted by blmbox

What has become of me...

No need to be shy, we've all grown mane in here.

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blmbox

Since 6281 Days

Neigh, I disagree. In fact, I think this thread has steedily gone downhill.

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SimonM7

Since 6973 Days

Whinny thing can happen if you don't hold your horses I supp.....HORSE.

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Nietzsche

Since 6303 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

Oh god, you're doing it now too? If you read what I just wrote, you'll see that I'm railing against people who have a problem with the word wrong (among other things). "You are wrong" can be an opinion too, and again, I don't need to qualify that as my opinion when it's freaking obvious that's what it is. Come on. And I'll continue to disagree--GTA4 is a great game--and I say that with confidence, knowing that it has funky mechanics. There are plenty of games where something ultimately makes up for crap combat. Why on earth would anyone ever play a game like Silent Hill or Resident Evil (for example) otherwise? There are great games with questionable gameplay mechanics, and there are games with great gameplay that just aren't great because they lack content and focus. It happens.

But if it makes you feel better, "I think that's bullshit."

I don't take as much issue with people not qaulifying opinions as much as I do people presenting their opinion in an arrogant as fuck manner. To say that one didn't enjoy GTA IV is a far cry from saying "GTA IV is just a pile of shit excuse of a game". I didn't enjoy MGS4 much at all, but I can also see outside my own tastes enough to realize that it's a polished game with plenty to offer other types of gamers. It's not "broken" in any way and to think that me personally not liking it makes it an objectively piss poor game just seems far too self-centered.

Grift, you obviously have very strong opinions and are a very opinionated person, but I don't think you feel like your opinions are objective truth as your posts imply you agree to this I believe.

but, again, it's the way that someone phrases their opinion that can make game argument threads so vile and annoying. How can someone not realize the difference between "you are wrong", "i think you are wrong", and "I disagree with you". The first sounds VERY arrogant, the second sounds less arrogant but still degrading one's opinion, and the third simply states a difference in opinion and taste.

It's as if you think there is no room for being polite and NOT trying to sound like an arrogant prick? does this make sense?

Anyhow, sorry, I'm not trying to turn this thread back into a long debate, I just didn't want my original point to be too misunderstood

I'll be buying this game as soon as my tax refund comes in (I hate being a poor college student...ugh) as the game seems like it's going to be really interesting in a very wide variety of ways.

My biggest problem with the MP side of GTA IV was that I didn't enjoy the gunplay enough to make the player vs player combat feel nearly as fun as combat against the AI in a mission. If the gunplay feels a lot more natural and intense, the MP side of RDR should be just as thrilling as the co-op stuff. Can't wait to try it out!!!

In reply to

[quote=GriftGFX]Oh god, you're doing it now too? If you read what I [i]just wrote[/i], you'll see that I'm railing against people who have a problem with the word wrong (among other things). "You are wrong" can be an opinion too, and again, I don't need to qualify that as my opinion when it's freaking obvious that's what it is. Come on. And I'll continue to disagree--GTA4 is a great game--and I say that with confidence, knowing that it has funky mechanics. There are plenty of games where something ultimately makes up for crap combat. Why on earth would anyone ever play a game like Silent Hill or Resident Evil (for example) otherwise? There are great games with questionable gameplay mechanics, and there are games with great gameplay that just aren't great because they lack content and focus. It happens.

But if it makes you feel better, "[i]I think[/i] that's bullshit."[/quote]

I don't take as much issue with people not qaulifying opinions as much as I do people presenting their opinion in an arrogant as fuck manner. To say that one didn't enjoy GTA IV is a far cry from saying "GTA IV is just a pile of shit excuse of a game". I didn't enjoy MGS4 much at all, but I can also see outside my own tastes enough to realize that it's a polished game with plenty to offer other types of gamers. It's not "broken" in any way and to think that me personally not liking it makes it an objectively piss poor game just seems far too self-centered.

Grift, you obviously have very strong opinions and are a very opinionated person, but I don't think you feel like your opinions are objective truth as your posts imply you agree to this I believe.

but, again, it's the way that someone phrases their opinion that can make game argument threads so vile and annoying. How can someone not realize the difference between "you are wrong", "i think you are wrong", and "I disagree with you". The first sounds VERY arrogant, the second sounds less arrogant but still degrading one's opinion, and the third simply states a difference in opinion and taste.

It's as if you think there is no room for being polite and NOT trying to sound like an arrogant prick? does this make sense?

Anyhow, sorry, I'm not trying to turn this thread back into a long debate, I just didn't want my original point to be too misunderstood :-)

I'll be buying this game as soon as my tax refund comes in (I hate being a poor college student...ugh) as the game seems like it's going to be really interesting in a very wide variety of ways.

My biggest problem with the MP side of GTA IV was that I didn't enjoy the gunplay enough to make the player vs player combat feel nearly as fun as combat against the AI in a mission. If the gunplay feels a lot more natural and intense, the MP side of RDR should be just as thrilling as the co-op stuff. Can't wait to try it out!!!

Ronsauce

Since 6935 Days

Well said.

In reply to

Zapp Brannigan: If we can hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

IRAIPT0IR

Since 5658 Days

He is wrong!!! :P

LOL

Come on RDR its almost mine,this sunday is my birthday and RDR will be mine Saturday night!!! I will do an all nighter for this masterpiece!!!

In reply to

FROM THE DARKNESS I DRAW MY STRENGTH!!

blmbox

Since 6281 Days

I'm sure this game is great, but does anyone get the impression that it's perhaps a little too manestream?

In reply to

Viginti_Tres

Since 6452 Days

What do you mean by that? If you mean, easy to play and throughout enjoyable (like ME2 was), then I'm all for it.

edit: Otherwise, I don't think there is something like mainstream in videogames. Certainly not something comparable to the music industry. Games are defined by their over all quality and not by their artistic execution.

In reply to

IRAIPT0IR

Since 5658 Days

I don't think this game is mainstream at all,it may seem because its about the old wild west but is not.

Or maybe it is but who cares the game look magnificient!!

In reply to

FROM THE DARKNESS I DRAW MY STRENGTH!!

Frozpot

Since 6708 Days

Posted by blmbox

I'm sure this game is great, but does anyone get the impression that it's perhaps a little too manestream?

? Nothing mainstream about the game. It's not too easy to play, the story doesn't cater to teeny boppers, and it is friggin' great. Loving every second of it. I really like Marston too- he's one polite bad-ass...

In reply to

Oooh, Profound, isn't it?

Ronsauce

Since 6935 Days

Oh my god...3 swings and misses.

Don't worry blmbox, I got it.

In reply to

Zapp Brannigan: If we can hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

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