I can do a great impression of Donald Duck.

Give it to us!

We had a (sorta, except for some trouble makers) a nice Shadowrun thread going.. way to start another one! Guess this is the place for demo impressions now.

Decent demo.. just finished the tutorials. I'll put some more time into it in a bit, maybe try to get a party started. I don't like how they teased you with an extra bit of magic during the tutorial. Evil.

So far though.. not too bad. I wish you could change the button mapping though. RB should be reload in every FPS now :)

Like.. always? Have you been playing a lot of Xbox 1 or something? :P

The auto-aim is sorta ridiculous in this game. My accuracy was terrible, and then I realized that I can just use the camera adhesion instead of manually adjusting the look stick.. sorta a little lame. But what can I say.. I'm used to loads of auto-aim and camera adhesion from Halo, so it's not too bad. Guess that's just one of those things you have to cope with on a game pad.

I am enjoying it though.. more so now that I got a handle on what magic/tech I want to use in the demo. I'm not really digging the glider much. It's all about teleport. You can scale the level in seconds.

No love for the correct controller for the job. Maybe if there were kb+m support on the console side I could play this game w/o loads of auto-aim and other aids. I'm 100% behind that initiative.. but I sorta gave up on it all together. It's obvious that MS would rather listen to the people who claim it levels the playing field than real FPS fans! :P

It's not weird at all. It's already been mentioned previously in this thread.. game pad users get a ton of auto-aim and other aiming aids to balance that all out. I literally have better accuracy in Shadowrun when I aim less. Now that's weird.

It's not all about the mouse either.. keyboards allow for more dynamic movement. Sure, you might not have analog movement, but that's more than made up for by the speed at which you can change your inputs, and the fact that you have the ability to go for more simultaneous inputs than you possibly could on a game pad.

You can prefer the joy pad all you want.. but it will never be better than a mouse and keyboard.

I'm not complaining about the game though.. I dig it so far. And it wouldn't be right to complain about the aiming aids.. unless you're just going on a console FPS rant :)

I notice it both with and without.. obviously a good deal more with. And you're right, it's comparable to other console FPS.. I'm just a PC gamer so I had to mention it :P

I really like Shadow Run. I played the first training mission and had a blast. First training mission I've ever enjoyed in a game. I'll play the demo a bit more and see how I like it.

Just what I thought about the KB/MS PR... "Gamepad is as good, even better, than a mouse!... [because we add a ton of hacks and user assists to take the skill out of the game]" PC FPS can be even easier when you have auto aim and magnatism assists as well. I don't mind an FPS designing for a gamepad -- non-linear rotation, time based panning acceleration, non-1:1 X:Y movement relationship, etc. This is called, "Designing to your platform". But auto-aim (hit the enemy even when your cross hair isn't on them) and magnatism (the closer you get your crosshair, the more attraction to draw your crosshair to the enemy becomes) and camera adhesion (once on an enemy the crosshair tends to stick to the enemy) are hacks, user assists, one may even say "cheats". Hence a number of FPS, even on the consoles (like TimeSplitters2) gives you a choice to disable these cheats.

These sort of user assists are like driving FM2 with all the driver assists on and they actually giving an advantage beyond adjusting to the platform limitations (e.g. beyond breaking help and gear shifty you also get better acceleration through gear shifts, more forgiving cornering, etc). Not that this is a bad thing, but completely irrelevant when comparing, say, a FF Wheel in a realistic driving situation to a gamepad with uber assists.

Whether you're waging war with 10.000 troops or combat eachother with rock paper scissors, it's fair game as long as everyone is stuck with the same method.

Whether you've got total lock on like Crackdown or you're required to adjust your little analogue stick with milimeter precision is pretty irrelevant. I wouldn't call one or the other "cheating". Do games that sport a more generous life bar than a realistic alternative warrant being called "cheats" or "hacks"?

Pitted against eachother, mouse/keyboard and gamepads will never really provide all gamers with a leveled playing field and I think the attempt to create just that is forfeit. At least with the comparably crazy auto aim, PC players have the option of turning to a standard 360 pad if they want the same treatment.

If anything I think this whole situation makes it all the more clear that introducing kb/m to the 360 would just be a bad idea.

Nevertheless, I think it's a bit unfair to diminish the skills of a Halo player on the Xbox to a "cheat". Turning off auto aim doesn't make him a better person unless the opponents he's facing don't have the option of having them on in the first place.

Bullshit.. it's fair if you've got the same TV set, the same internet provider, the same skill level etc.. people cry too damn much. There are plenty of ways to balance different controllers. Have segregated lobbies if it's such a big damn deal. Being stuck with anything is well.. lame.

What's next.. I can't use my arcade stick or my force feedback wheel? Yea yea.. not the same, right? Why? Not that MS would ever make such a move anyway.. not when there are $120 peripherals to be sold!Well.. at least with the option to use a keyboard and mouse, Xbox gamers could do the same. How is that any different? It's like.. not. If it's okay for PC gamers to have to play against that bullshit (a la Halo 2 Vista, Shadowrun), with claims that the game-pad is somehow better to top it off, why shouldn't Xbox users have to deal with local mouse users?It's not unfair.. a certain amount of skill is lost in match making because of auto-aim and camera adhesion. It's not as drastic in Halo 3.. but it's still there. If it comes down to who is better at using auto-aim.. then yea.. that's a skill to be proud of :P

Complaining about the lack of proper FPS control on the 360 is totally valid. Notice though.. I still play Halo, and I'm enjoying the hell out of Shadowrun.. I just think they'd be greatly enhanced by the option.

Not everyone has their 360 connected to a monitor on a desk. Using mouse and keyboard from a fucking sofa isn't really ideal you know, and having to redecorate your entire gaming setup just to have some flat surfaces to put them on on isn't something people should have to do.

If you're in an office chair in front of your computer you could put a llama on there if you had to, holding a pad in that position isn't gonna require a complete overhaul.

I think the TV/sofa space is hopelessly inadequate if you want a PC style experience, and guess what, people that game there aren't looking for one.


Similarly, the "whining" about auto aim is completely weird. How is auto aim lame when actually using mouse and keyboard wouldn't be? How is it even different? Sure, there's this notion that somehow kb/m is the *parents of the FPS genre!* but that's an overly conservative and narrow minded mentality towards gaming in general. Games feel and play different for all sorts of reasons, and even though one way of making a game would result in a "more effective style of play/killing an opponent" doesn't mean that other games can't include obstacles and tweaks to slow down the game or shift focus to other aspects of it.

Halo on Xbox felt different from all other games in a good way largely thanks to the way it controlled. That's an alien thought to some people, that the exact same game with mouse and keyboard wouldn't strike the same chord - have the same chemistry but that's just the way it is.

Playing a light gun game like Virtua Cop or Time Crisis, the most "effective" way to play would be to push it up against the screen and skip that whole cumbersome act of AIMING, but that's not really what the game is about. In the pursuit of the most effective way to play games I wonder why they didn't make it that way....

Or do I?

EDIT: since you edited some of the edge off your post I'll just edit in some.. er.. cake and singing.

Ooooh, the spaace betweeeen.. the teeaars we cryyy-y-yyyyy.. is the lauuughter keeps us coming back for mooooore! *eats cake*