The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Since 5038 Days

This place got creepy.

... and fast.

MOD EDIT: Since JMadden is at the top of the page, he will tea bag everyone who posts after him. That's why I'm editing this. Ha!

- Mr. P

In reply to

Tinks

Since 6947 Days

This message is in "Boulet Time" (TM), If you still *really* want to see it, click here

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:o
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blmbox

Since 6349 Days

Confirmed: Skyrim has awesome detection. I know this without playing the game. Because I'm awesome.

In reply to

Sath

Since 6884 Days

LOL too funy

You seriously think this is good?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItQOo28Kd_U#t=01m32...

In reply to

Phaethon360

Since 6863 Days

Yes. Because I realize this is 120hr RPG and not friggin Ninja Gaiden.

And thank you Tinks for absorbing the brunt of those balls so that the rest of us would be spared.

In reply to

Megido

Since 6343 Days

The problem with Oblivion and seemingly with Skyrim is player feedback, not hit detection. Stop calling it hit detection, the games have no problem detecting hits. There are two problems though, first of the floaty, weightless swing animation. It should have more momentum. Second the feedback, enemies don't react to being hit. A bit of blood pops up and you get a little soundeffect but you'd expect a guy the at least have some animated reaction to getting a sword swiped across the face. Might not be a huge issue gameplay-wise but it does a LOT for the experience in general imo. Especially as you'll be doing quite a lot of combat. It being an RPG really isn't an excuse as these are rather minor things that could and should be fixed.

In reply to

Chanticleer Hegemony

Sath

Since 6884 Days

Megido

Some people call that hit detection, but ah well.
I have always said the hit detection to the enemy in melee combat is very bad and very unsatistfying to the point its just not worth using melee at all and just use bow and arrow and magic spells (which I do not like!).
When I played Oblivion just to refresh my memories, I used bow and arrow much more than melee because it was giving great feedback compared to melee.
I wont lie, the last hit with melee that kills the enemy and they flung back is nice, or the power swings.

Witcher 2 (sometimes), Demons Souls/Dark Souls, Kingdom of Amalur, Dragons Dogma, LOTR War in the North

Just a few example were the hit detection during combat (feedback as Megido calls it) is very good for an RPG.
Bethesda is just too lazy of not work more on it as much as they do with everything else.

Even in Fallout 3 the gunplay felt like shit.
Its just fact that Bethesda lack the talent of combat mechanic.

@Phaethon

Keep that "not a friggin Ninja Gaiden" nonsense to yourself considering I have never said I wanted that in a RPG.
I mean even Witcher 2 and Kingdom of Amalur is closer to that so I have my "fix" with those.

In reply to

Megido

Some people call that hit detection, but ah well.
I have always said the hit detection to the enemy in melee combat is very bad and very unsatistfying to the point its just not worth using melee at all and just use bow and arrow and magic spells (which I do not like!).
When I played Oblivion just to refresh my memories, I used bow and arrow much more than melee because it was giving great feedback compared to melee.
I wont lie, the last hit with melee that kills the enemy and they flung back is nice, or the power swings.

Witcher 2 (sometimes), Demons Souls/Dark Souls, Kingdom of Amalur, Dragons Dogma, LOTR War in the North

Just a few example were the hit detection during combat (feedback as Megido calls it) is very good for an RPG.
Bethesda is just too lazy of not work more on it as much as they do with everything else.

Even in Fallout 3 the gunplay felt like shit.
Its just fact that Bethesda lack the talent of combat mechanic.

@Phaethon

Keep that "not a friggin Ninja Gaiden" nonsense to yourself considering I have never said I wanted that in a RPG.
I mean even Witcher 2 and Kingdom of Amalur is closer to that so I have my "fix" with those.

FireWire

Since 7018 Days

Posted by Sath

@Phaethon

Keep that "not a friggin Ninja Gaiden" nonsense to yourself considering I have never said I wanted that in a RPG.
I mean even Witcher 2 and Kingdom of Amalur is closer to that so I have my "fix" with those.

Hey don't blame us for stuff you've been spouting about these forums for the past couple of years.. These kind of comments come from your "meh, no cargopants" or "not enough sci-fi" or "I wish this game had Ninja Gaiden's combat system" comments you post in every single thread

In reply to

"First come smiles, then comes lies. Last is gunfire"

Megido

Since 6343 Days

Yeah because it detects your hit just fine, what lacks is the game giving the player enough feedback on the hit (ie enemy stagger a bit, blood and sound effects), hence player feedback rather than hit detection. If you were to swipe your sword straight though an enemy without the hit registering, that'd be a problem with hit detection :P

In reply to

Chanticleer Hegemony

Phaethon360

Since 6863 Days

"I tell ya the cops don't have a problem with hit detection. I swear officer, she fell down the stairs!" *rimshot*

In reply to

FireWire

Since 7018 Days

I do agree that the combat is lacking... Not in the options of different weapons or spells or anything, but like Megido and Sath mention;

The way the NPC's and even your own character reacts to being hit or hurt...
Seems to be more of a flaw of the animation system though, same with that Dragon picking up the Giant and the giant falls from the sky very awkwardly.. (Like he's still standing on the ground)...

In reply to

"First come smiles, then comes lies. Last is gunfire"

Ronsauce

Since 7003 Days

Posted by Megido

Second the feedback, enemies don't react to being hit. A bit of blood pops up and you get a little soundeffect but you'd expect a guy the at least have some animated reaction to getting a sword swiped across the face.

That's just it. They do react to getting hit. Sure, in the example Sath needlessly provided, there isn't a reaction, but that doesn't mean every single hit is like that.

Posted by Sath

Even in Fallout 3 the gunplay felt like shit.
Its just fact that Bethesda lack the talent of combat mechanic.

Pretty much all RPG gunplay never feels good since your accuracy is determined by dice rolls. At least Fallout 3 had VATS which was damn awesome.

In reply to

Zapp Brannigan: If we can hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

Megido

Since 6343 Days

Not saying there's none whatsoever i just think it looks by far less full of impact than it could be. There is feedback though, better than ever for a bethesda RPG, but it still could use some polish imo. Then again a lot of the points where it's lacking might be because of circumstances as well, i don't know how moves prioritize and stuff like that. Maybe the little throat cut vid sath linked to happens because another skill/animation is currently running and that cancels any staggering animation out and so forth. I don't know and neither do you. At any rate, i'm still not expecting the combat to be great. it's always been the weakest part of the TES series and until they prove that they fixed it with either a demo or me just buying the game i'll assume that it'll be the standard Bethesda fare. Then again, only a few months until we get to play it, so we won't have to wonder for long.

In reply to

Chanticleer Hegemony

Sath

Since 6884 Days

Posted by FireWire

Hey don't blame us for stuff you've been spouting about these forums for the past couple of years.. These kind of comments come from your "meh, no cargopants" or "not enough sci-fi" or "I wish this game had Ninja Gaiden's combat system" comments you post in every single thread

"cargopants" stuff was during COD4 when I read about character customization (Rainbow Six Vegas, GRAW type). But frankly I dropped that stuff because I didnt care anymore.
But it seems some like to bring that crap up for no reason at all, which is pathethic.

About the NG part, I never wanted NG combat in a RPG, never mentioned it.
I always say in RPGs were combat is real time, they should have a great feedback when you melee, thats it.
If I wanted NG, I would look for pure action games, but thats not what I was looking for.

And sci fi part, hell yes I want sci fi in my shooters, because I LOVE sci fi, its just that simple.

The feedback from the enemy is random in Skyrim and I hope they fix it, but I know that wont happen, thats all I have to say.

In reply to

[quote=FireWire]

Hey don't blame us for stuff you've been spouting about these forums for the past couple of years.. These kind of comments come from your "meh, no cargopants" or "not enough sci-fi" or "I wish this game had Ninja Gaiden's combat system" comments you post in every single thread :-)[/quote]

"cargopants" stuff was during COD4 when I read about character customization (Rainbow Six Vegas, GRAW type). But frankly I dropped that stuff because I didnt care anymore.
But it seems some like to bring that crap up for no reason at all, which is pathethic.

About the NG part, I never wanted NG combat in a RPG, never mentioned it.
I always say in RPGs were combat is real time, they should have a great feedback when you melee, thats it.
If I wanted NG, I would look for pure action games, but thats not what I was looking for.

And sci fi part, hell yes I want sci fi in my shooters, because I LOVE sci fi, its just that simple.

The feedback from the enemy is random in Skyrim and I hope they fix it, but I know that wont happen, thats all I have to say.

KORNdog

Since 6422 Days

Posted by Sath

thats all I have to say.

i'll believe it when i see it...lol

In reply to

blmbox

Since 6349 Days

I really don't see what's so important about it; you attack an enemy and eventually it dies. That's all I need.

And it's not like the 'hit detection' is absolutely awful. Jump to 1:22 on that video for example, and you'll see that the spider stumbles backwards when hit with the sword - and it looks awesome. It isn't consistent, no, and it isn't perfect - but so what? Fact is this is overall going to be an incredible package, and the combat will be good enough for it to be complimentary rather than hindering.

This is still primarily an RPG. You can go 'oh that's just a stupid excuse bla bla bla I want a ninja bla bla bla', but it's an important point to make. If the emphasis is on exploration, character progression and quest completion - amongst a variety of other things - why bother making the combat anymore then it needs to be? And there's still room for improvement, even if you don't believe there can be.

RPG > action.

In reply to

Tinks

Since 6947 Days

Guess I took the joke TOO far

Posted by blmbox

RPG > action.

Tell that to the people behind Mass Effect.
Action = $$$$$
Bethesda will learn that soon enough too

In reply to

IRAIPT0IR

Since 5726 Days

Gameplay >>> Everything included RPG or whatever.

Hit Detection sucks aswell as killing feedback deal with it.

Awesome Thread Tittle!!

:P

In reply to

Real Madrid C.F. fan.

Sath

Since 6884 Days

Blmbox

Thats why I said its random, but they must work on it so its good all the time or else its a half job on the combat department.

In reply to

blmbox

Since 6349 Days

Posted by IRAIPT0IR

Gameplay >>> Everything included RPG or whatever.

Hit Detection sucks aswell as killing feedback deal with it.

Awesome Thread Tittle!!

:P

Well they can't both be bad, as surely one of those terms means registering that there has been a hit - which does occur, as your enemy's health depletes? Get it right.

Posted by Sath

Blmbox

Thats why I said its random, but they must work on it so its good all the time or else its a half job on the combat department.

When there are so many other factors/stats taken into consideration during the combat, I really don't think it can be considered a 'half job'.

In reply to

IRAIPT0IR

Since 5726 Days

Don't worry too much blmbox, game will be awesome I have no doubt about it.

Probably even GOTY :)

In reply to

Real Madrid C.F. fan.

blmbox

Since 6349 Days

Posted by IRAIPT0IR

Don't worry too much blmbox

Lol, I'm not worried. It's you guys making the fuss.

In reply to

IRAIPT0IR

Since 5726 Days

Posted by blmbox

Lol, I'm not worried. It's you guys making the fuss.

Awesome!!

;)

In reply to

Real Madrid C.F. fan.

Sath

Since 6884 Days

Posted by blmbox

When there are so many other factors/stats taken into consideration during the combat, I really don't think it can be considered a 'half job'.

I hope they show the 3rd person view of it during combat, I love the animations they showed.

But all in all, I know the game will be great no doubt about it.

In reply to

Frozpot

Since 6776 Days

Posted by Megido

Not saying there's none whatsoever i just think it looks by far less full of impact than it could be. There is feedback though, better than ever for a bethesda RPG, but it still could use some polish imo. Then again a lot of the points where it's lacking might be because of circumstances as well, i don't know how moves prioritize and stuff like that. Maybe the little throat cut vid sath linked to happens because another skill/animation is currently running and that cancels any staggering animation out and so forth. I don't know and neither do you. At any rate, i'm still not expecting the combat to be great. it's always been the weakest part of the TES series and until they prove that they fixed it with either a demo or me just buying the game i'll assume that it'll be the standard Bethesda fare. Then again, only a few months until we get to play it, so we won't have to wonder for long.

I think what a lot of people are ignoring is that the game is working on a less than realistic system (ie, they have life-bars/hit points). I've seen people suggest condemned, and while that game was fine, I enjoyed the melee combat much more in Oblivion.
In Oblivion I felt that they did a good job of conveying certain things like blocking. I like the Block/swing dynamic myself. A sword swing, or even hammer swing (if blocked) is not going to stagger you every time. A sword is going to slice right through you (or deflect of the surface of armor), and unless you want insta-kills everytime, you have to accept that there will be multiple swings involved. I think it is much more noticeable in first person too.

If you want to see what weapons do to bodies, even armor and how it affects the swing, just watch some episodes of Deadliest Warrior (watching chain mail shrug of a Samuri Sword slice is something else). Mountains out of mole-hills here, and I think Skyrim looks even better...

In reply to

[quote=Megido]Not saying there's none whatsoever i just think it looks by far less full of impact than it could be. There is feedback though, better than ever for a bethesda RPG, but it still could use some polish imo. Then again a lot of the points where it's lacking might be because of circumstances as well, i don't know how moves prioritize and stuff like that. Maybe the little throat cut vid sath linked to happens because another skill/animation is currently running and that cancels any staggering animation out and so forth. I don't know and neither do you. At any rate, i'm still not expecting the combat to be great. it's always been the weakest part of the TES series and until they prove that they fixed it with either a demo or me just buying the game i'll assume that it'll be the standard Bethesda fare. Then again, only a few months until we get to play it, so we won't have to wonder for long.[/quote]

I think what a lot of people are ignoring is that the game is working on a less than realistic system (ie, they have life-bars/hit points).  I've seen people suggest condemned, and while that game was fine, I enjoyed the melee combat much more in Oblivion.   
In Oblivion I felt that they did a good job of conveying certain things like blocking.  I like the Block/swing dynamic myself.  A sword swing, or even hammer swing (if blocked) is not going to stagger you every time.  A sword is going to slice right through you (or deflect of the surface of armor), and unless you want insta-kills everytime, you have to accept that there will be multiple swings involved.  I think it is much more noticeable in first person too.

If you want to see what weapons do to bodies, even armor and how it affects the swing, just watch some episodes of Deadliest Warrior (watching chain mail shrug of a Samuri Sword slice is something else).  Mountains out of mole-hills here, and I think Skyrim looks even better...

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