They're getting rid of the useless shit, so what?

Mystisism(sp) will NOT be missed.

Armor Degradation will NOT be missed.

And I don't see why a game breaking spell being taken out is so bad?

P.S. Calling it Oblivion 2.0 is a bit of a stretch, especially when your only regarding ONE feature, when the rest of the game looks completely different.

I will miss it.

And KORN, what was that about 1 piece armour? Do you not have to collect the set now? If so that blows too...

There isn't one piece armor...

Only one I can think of is robes, and thats pretty much a given.

Also, the Preview someone posted in the last page? How come no one is talking about how Werewolves are confirmed?

Haha, I'm one of those idiots that they're dumbing shit down for. I never got into Morrowind, one of the big reasons is that I couldn't kill the first creatures I encountered (cockroaches or sth) after several minutes of swinging sword. I didn't get into Oblivion either, but that's because the world was so uninteresting. I'm playing Fallout New Vegas now and while I do some item crafting (mostly to clear inventory), I have yet to install a weapon mod (after 40 or so hours). For me these games are all about exploration and doing quests, combat, skill trees, inventory management are all to add some spice and variety to the first to elements but I don't pay too much attention to them.

Streamlining in Bioware games is very disappointing though, as there's no exploration you're only left with very poor combat, some dialogues and very light RPG elements. In case of Bioware, I consider Baldur's Gate 1/2 their best game, in case of Bethesda - Fallout 3.

Great ;)

they've combined grieves with chest armour. which apparently alows them to have more variation? i call BS on that one.

and i will miss all of those things you listed.

as i said, it's oblivion 2.0 in the sense it's dumbing things down AGAIN, make people thinking about less and less. just like oblivion dumbed thing down compared to morrowind. it's only a critisism if you feel it's true. i do, and thus it's a shitty decision. but it seems to be the case with a lot of games nowadays. "screw depth, lets just get more people playing it"

i can accept poor combat, but dont take away options and depth.

Pretty sure that title still belongs to Fallout 2 :P

It isn't screwing depth, it's taking stuff out and adding new stuff in, which I find equally good. Armor degradation didn't really have a place in that game (It makes sense in Fallout, as it actually contributes to the atmosphere).

A line should be drawn between Tediousness and Depth, and to me, they have opted for the latter. Crafting > Armor/Weap degradation.

Calling it Oblivion 2.0 still doesn't make sense, try harder. Your saying it's a 2.0 because, what, they are removing skills like Oblivion did? I can see where people might say NV was Fallout 3 2.0, due to the same engne/controls/interface, but your really clutching at straws with the TES series, because they always build from the ground up with their games.

And finally, taking out mysticism was a good move. I don't know if you know this, but all the (useful) spells from mysticism have been plopped into other magic catagories. They have just taken away a pretty useless skill, in order to streamline the game. I don't see how that merits dirty underwear on your part.

P.S. I don't know why your acting negative and critisizing the game at every turn, we all know your going to get it anyway.

Yeah, but I still think there is something to be said for not bogging the player down with a bunch of unnecessary complexity. For me, RPG are less about inventory management (that's more OCD than "smart")and more about exploration, adventure, and existing in another world. It's not like you can't find plants and make potions anymore, and that would be a more grievous example,IMO. There is still plenty of loot, and maybe you'll be more attached to your weapons (like in fantasy novels) There are benefits...

Tbh inventory management isn't just about OCD, it's about limiting what you can bring with you so that, ideally, you have to think about what to bring with you on your adventure rather than just picking up everything you stumble across and never tossing anything. In the case of Oblivion that really wasn't the case as even a thief or mage could carry ridiculos amounts of stuff, especially with spells. But done right i think inventory management is significant and not just OCD.

That said, only having whole sets of armor rather than sepparate pieces...doesn't matter much to me tbh. I usually just want a full set anyway :P Might drag the abuse of enchanting down a bit as well, so that you cant have 100% chameleon with a set of armor :)

you clearly still dont seem to get what i'm saying. my 2.0 statement isnt about gameplay, themes, premis, controls, tech, engine. it's about them dumbing mechanics down of removing them entirely for morons AGAIN in the hopes of drawing in more players. i dont appreciate that, good to see people do. i'm sure you'll enjoy it since it obviously isnt an issue for you.and this "streamlining" is precisely my issue. fix, improve upon, tweak...dont just remove it and pretend it wasnt there. it's what pissed me off about ME2, and it's what pisses me off about skyrim. a game built around options and freedom shouldnt have such issues imo. by all means cater to the impatient, but not at the expense of those who WANT depth. the removal of spell crafting is just a moronic decision imo. and one that is detrimental to the experience they are trying to offer...

Your argument holds no water. I don't even know what your trying to say anymore. It doesn't have ANY issues with freedom or options, it has just taken out ONE option, and replaced it with a bunch of better ones. Your one of those people who wants everything the same installment after installment. It's no wonder COD is still afloat.

The 2.0 still doesn't make sense, probably just some terrible word choice on your part.

And finally, Bethesda probably know what they are doing when it comes to removing spell making, maybe they realised how gamebreaking it was. The game has a lot of depth, they are just trying to innovate, so that the game isn't the exact same was the previous one. I don't see why you need to bawl your eyes out over it.

If you want to call it 'innovating' then by all means. I'll call it what it is; Dumbing down for the masses.

So...they add skill trees, crafting and spell combos but remove the original spell crafting system...how is that dumbed down?

Call it what you like, as long as it makes you feel better.
;)

Because they are all catered to the impatient COD crowd. The reason skyrim is the way it is is the same reason ME2 or bioshock are the way they are compared to ME1 or systemshock. Dont you find it weird that in live demo's the skill-tree is described as 'perks' and that the bare bones spell combo's are just squeezing a trigger like that of plazmids? Or that skill notifications pop up in an obnoxious COD exp manner "100 headshots-bow upgraded to lvl 3"....I like series to evolve and develop, but not when it amounts to the removal and simplification of features, not in an RPG.

A spell crafting system is just as vital to a game of this type as archery, swordplay or alchemy. People dont have to use it if they dont wish, but dont remove it entirely and give people who do want it the finger. And certainly dont try to justify such ommisions as being 'innovative'...because we all know that is just complete BS.

It's the same with weapon degredation. It should at least be an option in the same way squad control was an option in mass effect or dragon age. There for people who want it and find value in it, but can be turned off for those that dont. Dont just remove it completely and act like you're doing the entire fanbase a favour. A bladed weapon should need repairs with use, crossbows and bows should need strings re-tightening or parts replaced. I AT LEAST expected a combination repair system ala fallout, or the ability to break items down to parts for later armour and weapon repairs ala two worlds. But no, just cut it entirely so people have to think even less about what they're doing.

I think the shitty decisions are shitty. Simple as that really, not sure what else to say....

Its not.

Calm down.

They removed TWO features, and you are comparing the best running candidate of GOTY to Call of Duty?

Get over it.

No, since i dont have to... i simply wont buy it. Fuck supporting a developer who cant even keep the most basic of RPG elements intact. Rental at best....much like ME3 and for much the same reasons.

I'm sure Bethesda will somehow get over the lost of your sale.. lol...

So your not buying it? So... What are you doing here?

Lol? Armour degradation was annoying and shitty, and combining greaves with body armour? Like that's going to be sorely missed - you can still combine it with different hoods, boots, gloves etc. They've taken out mechanics which weren't really used by the majority of the community - I know because this shizz has come up constantly on the Bethesda forums - and enhanced it in other ways. 'Streamlined' is such a dangerous word in gaming nowadays, but Bethesda has utilized it logically and, ultimately, for the better.

I can understand people criticising the game for certain gameplay mechanics, but I think it's harsh to put a mark against them for simply removing things to make the game more accessible whilst maintaining the same depth.

By making something more accessible you sacrifice quite a lot of depth.

Depth is too general a term maybe.

I dont like Hardcore mode :P

The more easy and accessable the more for me lol