Forza Motorsport 2

Since 7000 Days

okay point taken.
As you should know, what I say is NOT what the other mods say.
I'm a flippin retard that way.

Anyway...
Thanks to mister smarty pants up there, this thread will remain open (flame away dipshits).

In reply to

LEBATO

Since 7128 Days

Cool, then it is worth posting the 38 Class A cars
http://www.msxbox-world.com/forums/index.php?showt...

27 Class S cars
http://www.msxbox-world.com/forums/index.php?showt...

The two U class cars
http://www.msxbox-world.com/forums/index.php?showt...

All the circuits (might be old)
http://www.msxbox-world.com/gallery/thumbnails.php...

EDIT: And yeah, I know what you say is not what all mods say, so that's why I think it was better to post it here than just PM you......besides, how was I supposed to PM you all that?! in 30 messages?

In reply to

Acert93

Since 6977 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

Hehe one could say that the 60fps argument didn't save Forza 2 from the barage it received in PGR3 comparisons so what are the chances of it saving RC2? I'd say very slim.

The difference being that RC2 looks really good.

157MB file is by far the best forza 2 gameplay video online and it shows that the game looks pretty damn good :D

Having watched direct feed @ 60fps I would have to disagree. The graphics are servicable, but I don't think it looks very good. A number of racing games out already have better graphics. It isn't even the first or second 60fps racer. What FM2 is offering though is accurate racing simulation with race-time realistic courses, robust online play, deep car tuning and customization, and a fun modification system. I haven't seen enough AI to say much there, but based on FM1 it should be good. So the core of simulation, customization, and competition (online, AI) is looking solid. It also excells with FF and has a fluid framerate. But graphically, and I joke not, Toca 3 on the PC looks better (and runs smoother) in many ways -- and that game is not impressive to me. RFactor is another one that comes to mind (which has a ton of cars as well like Toca and very accurate simulation). And Toca shows how a game made by an average developer can have some excellent damage modelling, both graphically and in terms of variability. Graphics and damage on FM2 are definately weak points in the general sim genre. I remember how bad some people punked RR6 and Burnout for their graphics, as well as the NFS games, but FM2 isn't looking much better than those ports, if at all. Not a big deal lest all the false hype by fans and the perpetual, "Old build". Heck, I was just reading that last week. Turn10 would have been better off saying, "We had to cut a ton of features" instead of every weak showing of graphics saying, "But it is an old build" and continueing overhyping the game with PR bullshots of what to expect with false advertising like, "Our photomode adds nothing" when seeing the game myself it is really clear that the game does not look like their photomode. Turn10 dug their own grave there. Kind of like how Sony did at E3 2005 with all the CGI-is-gameplay and again in 2006 with the $600 price tag. Everyone faces the piper when you hype your game. You live and die by hype. Glad to see games like ME, Halo, AC, etc toning it down and letting the little footage they have shown hype the game. It seems every time one of these loudmouths hypes their game and when they show it underwealms (Too Human anyone?) The best games are those that wow us with actual samples of the game. Hence the excitement for a game like AC. No repetitive talk of "old builds" or "we have xyz graphics features". The game was delayed and they are showing bits when they are ready and will live and die by their game, not the hype.

In reply to

[quote=Optimusv2]Hehe one could say that the 60fps argument didn't save Forza 2 from the barage it received in PGR3 comparisons so what are the chances of it saving RC2?  I'd say very slim.[/quote]

The difference being that RC2 looks really good.

[quote]157MB file is by far the best forza 2 gameplay video online and it shows that the game looks pretty damn good :D[/quote]

Having watched direct feed @ 60fps I would have to disagree. The graphics are servicable, but I don't think it looks very good. A number of racing games out already have better graphics. It isn't even the first or second 60fps racer. What FM2 is offering though is accurate racing simulation with race-time realistic courses, robust online play, deep car tuning and customization, and a fun modification system. I haven't seen enough AI to say much there, but based on FM1 it should be good. So the core of simulation, customization, and competition (online, AI) is looking solid. It also excells with FF and has a fluid framerate. But graphically, and I joke not, Toca 3 on the PC looks better (and runs smoother) in many ways -- and that game is not impressive to me. RFactor is another one that comes to mind (which has a ton of cars as well like Toca and very accurate simulation). And Toca shows how a game made by an average developer can have some excellent damage modelling, both graphically and in terms of variability. Graphics and damage on FM2 are definately weak points in the general sim genre. I remember how bad some people punked RR6 and Burnout for their graphics, as well as the NFS games, but FM2 isn't looking much better than those ports, if at all. Not a big deal lest all the false hype by fans and the perpetual, "Old build". Heck, I was just reading that last week. Turn10 would have been better off saying, "We had to cut a ton of features" instead of every weak showing of graphics saying, "But it is an old build" and continueing overhyping the game with PR bullshots of what to expect with false advertising like, "Our photomode adds nothing" when seeing the game myself it is really clear that the game does not look like their photomode. Turn10 dug their own grave there. Kind of like how Sony did at E3 2005 with all the CGI-is-gameplay and again in 2006 with the $600 price tag. Everyone faces the piper when you hype your game. You live and die by hype. Glad to see games like ME, Halo, AC, etc toning it down and letting the little footage they have shown hype the game. It seems every time one of these loudmouths hypes their game and when they show it underwealms (Too Human anyone?) The best games are those that wow us with actual samples of the game. Hence the excitement for a game like AC. No repetitive talk of "old builds" or "we have xyz graphics features". The game was delayed and they are showing bits when they are ready and will live and die by their game, not the hype.

Wishlist: PGR4 with a FF wheel, 2K Legends Football, and Halo 3 with an XFPS controller. And I can dream that Halo Wars will be a Battlezone PC clone...

Scarface

Since 6993 Days

Posted by PlumbDrumb

This one is about to be closed, without regret.

That would have to be some kind of a record:P

not saying i dont think it deserves it. The comparisons people are coming up with are ridiculous.

IMO Forza 2 (and pretty much every 360 game) could have had way better graphics if 720p wasn't the minimum res. But as it stands, we get unbelievable picture quality of a GREAT looking game. Runs beautifully smooth, physics are out of this world, and the game looks really fun. I personally can't wait.

I'm not hot on the idea of locking threads left, right and centre, but it wouldn't be such a bad thing to shut the little whiners up until the demo gets here at least.

In reply to

"Black people are called coloured, because we come in all colours" - michael jackson

LEBATO

Since 7128 Days

"But graphically, and I joke not, Toca 3 on the PC looks better (and runs smoother) in many ways -- and that game is not impressive to me."

Ouch......I wasn't expecting that one. I haven't played Toca for some time, but as far as I remember it looks better SOME ways........like much higher levels of AA and AF, and consistent, very high res liveries on cars/accross the track. But it can look pretty average in terms of car models and environments, especially trees. (not saying FM2 has awesome trees)

http://img.presence-pc.com/dossiers/r580/TOCA3.jpg

Rfactor does look very nice too, but since it is so mod-driven, it's up to the modders to make it look that nice. In other words, it's not consistent, but can look pretty awesome.

http://www.nacionalnaklasa.com/images/stories/vest...

Other than that I agree with your post.

In reply to

Scarface

Since 6993 Days

Toca 3?

dont make me come up there:P

In reply to

"Black people are called coloured, because we come in all colours" - michael jackson

PlumbDrumb

Since 7000 Days

Posted by Scarface

That would have to be some kind of a record:P

not saying i dont think it deserves it. The comparisons people are coming up with are ridiculous.

IMO Forza 2 (and pretty much every 360 game) could have had way better graphics if 720p wasn't the minimum res. But as it stands, we get unbelievable picture quality of a GREAT looking game. Runs beautifully smooth, physics are out of this world, and the game looks really fun. I personally can't wait.

I'm not hot on the idea of locking threads left, right and centre, but it wouldn't be such a bad thing to shut the little whiners up until the demo gets here at least.

I don't like seeing people belittled for what they have to say.
It really pisses me off.

That's it though, I'm done talking this.

In reply to

Scarface

Since 6993 Days

Posted by Scarface

The comparisons people are coming up with are ridiculous.

Posted by LEBATO

"But graphically, and I joke not, Toca 3 on the PC looks better (and runs smoother) in many ways -- and that game is not impressive to me."

Ouch......I wasn't expecting that one. I haven't played Toca for some time, but as far as I remember it looks better SOME ways........like much higher levels of AA and AF, and consistent, very high res liveries on cars/accross the track. But it can look pretty average in terms of car models and environments, especially trees. (not saying FM2 has awesome trees)

http://img.presence-pc.com/dossiers/r580/TOCA3.jpg

Rfactor does look very nice too, but since it is so mod-driven, it's up to the modders to make it look that nice. In other words, it's not consistent, but can look pretty awesome.

http://www.nacionalnaklasa.com/images/stories/vest...

Other than that I agree with your post.

lol

In reply to

"Black people are called coloured, because we come in all colours" - michael jackson

LEBATO

Since 7128 Days

Posted by Scarface

lol

That sure added a lot to this thread :|

You must have missed this part of the sticky thread;

"Posts that lack substance that add to the discussion and comradery of the forums is not welcome."

In reply to

Acert93

Since 6977 Days

Posted by PlumbDrumb

okay point taken.
As you should know, what I say is NOT what the other mods say.
I'm a flippin retard that way.

Anyway...
Thanks to mister smarty pants up there, this thread will remain open (flame away dipshits).

Your too hard on yourself. We like it when you close threads :P

Flames are not permissible. Discussion is good. Grasping at straws... hmmm. In a nutshell on graphics: Turn10 underdelivered, never recanted much outside of GAF (how 'bout those apples for official community communication?!) and still has us breath baited with: old build! just you wait! So the fans are holding onto the hope and those who are just sick of the PR are, "WT?! This doesn't look like their ingame non-PR shots they have been pimping!"

I mean, come one, does anyone think these shots look like a AAA title 1st party game built from the ground up for a next gen console?

http://images.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/5351/847_...
http://images.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/5351/847_...
http://images.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/5351/847_...
http://images.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/5351/847_...

I would be as pleased as anyone as the final-final build changes all of this, but the "old build" crap from Che is waaay old. Just admit the graphics never really improved from what you showed 9 months ago and you have a ton of aliasing (edge, shader, texture) and HDR artifacts and over bloom all over the place and be done with it.

If I hear "old build" one more time I am gonna ban Che from the internet!

Btw, Wiki has taken down the 2M sales quote. The last official numbers were 1.1M, but it was then bundled with PGR3 at discount. e.g. someone else referencing Wiki http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/permalink...

In reply to

[quote=PlumbDrumb]okay point taken.
As you should know, what I say is NOT what the other mods say.
I'm a flippin retard that way.

Anyway...
Thanks to mister smarty pants up there, this thread will remain open (flame away dipshits).[/quote]

Your too hard on yourself. We like it when you close threads :P

Flames are not permissible. Discussion is good. Grasping at straws... hmmm. In a nutshell on graphics: Turn10 underdelivered, never recanted much outside of GAF (how 'bout those apples for official community communication?!) and still has us breath baited with: old build! just you wait! So the fans are holding onto the hope and those who are just sick of the PR are, "WT?! This doesn't look like their ingame non-PR shots they have been pimping!"

I mean, come one, does anyone think these shots look like a AAA title 1st party game built from the ground up for a next gen console?

http://images.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/5351/847_0003.jpg
http://images.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/5351/847_0006.jpg
http://images.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/5351/847_0042.jpg
http://images.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/5351/847_0056.jpg

I would be as pleased as anyone as the final-final build changes all of this, but the "old build" crap from Che is waaay old. Just admit the graphics never really improved from what you showed 9 months ago and you have a ton of aliasing (edge, shader, texture) and HDR artifacts and over bloom all over the place and be done with it.

If I hear "old build" one more time I am gonna ban Che from the internet!

Btw, Wiki has taken down the 2M sales quote. The last official numbers were 1.1M, but it was then bundled with PGR3 at discount. e.g. someone else referencing Wiki http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/permalink/101804/71185/ShowThread.aspx

Wishlist: PGR4 with a FF wheel, 2K Legends Football, and Halo 3 with an XFPS controller. And I can dream that Halo Wars will be a Battlezone PC clone...

Acert93

Since 6977 Days

Posted by Scarface

Toca 3?

dont make me come up there:P

Bring it big boy >:) Will you be driving this to meet me?

:P

Posted by scar

we get unbelievable picture quality of a GREAT looking game

I can agree with most of your statements about physics and great game, but the picture quality? Great looking game? I just don't understand that. And I don't agree with the comments about 720p holding games back, there are a LOT of pretty games out there, even launch window games that were essentially ports that looked great.

Anyhow, my Toca 3 (running on a poor 6800GT @ HD resolutions) looks forward to meeting your Chespace putter from above! :P It will be a close race to call!

In reply to

Wishlist: PGR4 with a FF wheel, 2K Legends Football, and Halo 3 with an XFPS controller. And I can dream that Halo Wars will be a Battlezone PC clone...

kenshin2418

Since 6982 Days

so, is there still going to be a Xboxyde Clan? :)

and thumbs up at the Dodge Viper video. Love that car so damn much :(

*emo tear*

In reply to

FUCK UTAH!

Scarface

Since 6993 Days

Posted by Acert93

I mean, come one, does anyone think these shots look like a AAA title 1st party game built from the ground up for a next gen console?

http://images.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/5351/847_...
http://images.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/5351/847_...
http://images.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/5351/847_...
http://images.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/5351/847_...

i think if you cram 60 of those shots into 1 second then yes:) seriously though, some games just look better in motion, some look better in screen shots. The ones that look better in screen shots usually are 30fps (PGR3, DIRT).

lol, yeah we'll know when we're racing against Acert. Slow and steady wins the race:)

In reply to

"Black people are called coloured, because we come in all colours" - michael jackson

Scarface

Since 6993 Days

Posted by Acert93

picture quality? Great looking game?

yes and yes.

the game looks great...
http://www.xboxyde.com/news_4236_en.html

In reply to

"Black people are called coloured, because we come in all colours" - michael jackson

kenshin2418

Since 6982 Days

So um yeah, IGN has a new article up(with new screens too)
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/786/786552p1.html

In reply to

FUCK UTAH!

anm8rjp

Since 7704 Days

Well my non specific generalization on graphics on Forza2, since I know you all are waiting to hear my input. (LOL)

Its basically an uprezed looking Forza 1 engine. More polys that is about it. Forza 2 got criticized early on, for its lighting. They went back to refine it and only took it halfway there. Some of the tracks look very good, not great but very good. Others... nope, still need polishing. The developers have cut corners to get this game out and not delay it for a 2nd time.

This game will offer a lot. Physics, gameplay, online etc. But it is going to come up short in graphics. That will be its weakest link. Not a deal breaker, but this game isn't going to be wowing people with its graphics.

This game at best met my expectations (HD /more poly version of Forza1) It sure isn't exceeding my expectations.

In reply to

Optimusv2

Since 6899 Days

I agree with some of what you're saying Lebato, but I disagree with some of it.

It isn't exactly "saying X game does this better than FM2" that usually presents a problem its more some people taking notice of the admittedly unfair practice of a game that was previously picked apart heavily for its technical shortcomings instantly having its problems conveniently forgotten as a means of setting up the game in question (PGR3) as a posterboy for everything FM2 is doing wrong.

Even the famous GT HD comparisons are unfair for reasons I'm sure everyone here is aware of. In trying to get this message across to this game's detractors there have been many that have said their piece in a very mature manner, but they are instantly accused of being unable to handle criticism of a game they're looking forward to. Not once throughout these exchanges has anyone other than the people defending the game stopped to acknowledge specific reasons for why these comparisons may be unfair.

Now to the jist of why I disagree its because I think people that have compared forza 2 to PGR3 and GT HD are well aware of the reasons for why the comparisons are unfair, but neglect to acknowledge them as valid points as it would weaken their argument. There are times when people overreact to some of what is being said about an anticipated game (and I think I'm guilty for some of that too) , but I think the latest 2 buzzwords "objective discussion" are used often as a guise to cover up their real intentions and the fact that some people here aren't really interested in "Objective discussion"

How could they be when they ignore any and all valid points that don't agree with their argument?

Going on that toca 3 shot it looks better than PGR3 and PGR4 too. Also Acert you're seriously trying to tell me RC2 looks good and Forza 2 doesn't? Objective discussion? From that vid I showed you the graphics are only serviceable? Great shadows, great reflections, incredible physics, nice lighting. Where is the acert that told us everything comes at a cost nothing is free why can't you acknowledge that maybe due to turn10's ambitions for the physics this time around this maybe all they could manage to get out of the 360 for now? Why can't you acknowledge that its possible the incredible physics (which are calculated for all vehicles on the track btw not just your car) forced turn10 to cutback in some areas? Not looking better than RR6, NFS, burnout?

Yea ignore that those games don't run a physics simulation system quite as good as Forza 2 (and I think forza 2 still looks better) RR6 is downright unrealistic I don't even know why someone would compare that to Forza 2... Objective discussion indeed. You continue to ignore what those games lack when you compare them to Forza 2. There is nothing the least bit objective about any of that.

Next I'll here that Gran Turismo on the PS1 looks better too. Ever think you're expecting too much out of the console? If GT 5 gives you 60fps, forza 2 car physics, damage modeling, 60fps reflections, with GT HD calibur car models and lighting you'll start asking wheres the softshadows, global illumination and real-time ambient maps? Good god.

In reply to

I agree with some of what you're saying Lebato, but I disagree with some of it.

It isn't exactly "saying X game does this better than FM2" that usually presents a problem its more some people taking notice of the admittedly unfair practice of a game that was previously picked apart heavily for its technical shortcomings instantly having its problems conveniently forgotten as a means of setting up the game in question (PGR3) as a posterboy for everything FM2 is doing wrong.

Even the famous GT HD comparisons are unfair for reasons I'm sure everyone here is aware of.  In trying to get this message across to this game's detractors there have been many that have said their piece in a very mature manner, but they are instantly accused of being unable to handle criticism of a game they're looking forward to.  Not once throughout these exchanges has anyone other than the people defending the game stopped to acknowledge specific reasons for why these comparisons may be unfair.

Now to the jist of why I disagree its because I think people that have compared forza 2 to PGR3 and GT HD are well aware of the reasons for why the comparisons are unfair, but neglect to acknowledge them as valid points as it would weaken their argument.  There are times when people overreact to some of what is being said about an anticipated game (and I think I'm guilty for some of that too) , but I think the latest 2 buzzwords "objective discussion" are used often as a guise to cover up their real intentions and the fact that some people here aren't [i] really [/i] interested in "Objective discussion"

How could they be when they ignore any and all valid points that don't agree with their argument?

Going on that toca 3 shot it looks better than PGR3 and PGR4 too.  Also Acert you're seriously trying to tell me RC2 looks good and Forza 2 doesn't?  Objective discussion?  From that vid I showed you the graphics are only serviceable?  Great shadows, great reflections, incredible physics, nice lighting.  Where is the acert that told us everything comes at a cost nothing is free why can't you acknowledge that maybe due to turn10's ambitions for the physics this time around this maybe all they could manage to get out of the 360 for now?  Why can't you acknowledge that its possible the incredible physics (which are calculated for all vehicles on the track btw not just your car) forced turn10 to cutback in some areas?  Not looking better than RR6, NFS, burnout?

Yea ignore that those games don't run a physics simulation system quite as good as Forza 2 (and I think forza 2 still looks better)  RR6 is downright unrealistic I don't even know why someone would compare that to Forza 2...  Objective discussion indeed.  You continue to ignore what those games lack when you compare them to Forza 2.  There is nothing the least bit objective about any of that.

Next I'll here that Gran Turismo on the PS1 looks better too.  Ever think you're expecting too much out of the console?  If GT 5 gives you 60fps, forza 2 car physics, damage modeling, 60fps reflections, with GT HD calibur car models and lighting you'll start asking wheres the softshadows, global illumination and real-time ambient maps?   Good god.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

kenshin2418

Since 6982 Days

what a day, I get to use this for a 2nd time..

Anyway,
http://www.enregistrersous.com/images/2/9871420412...

Charger versus Corvette Stingray, that makes me :)

In reply to

FUCK UTAH!

LEBATO

Since 7128 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

I agree with some of what you're saying Lebato, but I disagree with some of it.

It isn't exactly "saying X game does this better than FM2" that usually presents a problem its more some people taking notice of the admittedly unfair practice of a game that was previously picked apart heavily for its technical shortcomings instantly having its problems conveniently forgotten as a means of setting up the game in question (PGR3) as a posterboy for everything FM2 is doing wrong.

I don't think so, only you have been saying that and my post didn't refer to you. Besides, it was proven not to be problem when Jin got all defensive about me referring to Rallisport. Bringing up GTHD too is not adequate for many here. Formula One, or any other racing game for that matter.

Even the famous GT HD comparisons are unfair for reasons I'm sure everyone here is aware of. In trying to get this message across to this game's detractors there have been many that have said their piece in a very mature manner, but they are instantly accused of being unable to handle criticism of a game they're looking forward to. Not once throughout these exchanges has anyone other than the people defending the game stopped to acknowledge specific reasons for why these comparisons may be unfair.

Somewhat, but if you don't think the comparison is valid (which it isn't to a point, I agree), you say so right? You don't call me moron do you? You don't go crazy. Some people don't get that though, if you REALLY don't like the comparison, just don't reply to my comment and we'll do fine.

Now to the jist of why I disagree its because I think people that have compared forza 2 to PGR3 and GT HD are well aware of the reasons for why the comparisons are unfair, but neglect to acknowledge them as valid points as it would weaken their argument. There are times when people overreact to some of what is being said about an anticipated game (and I think I'm guilty for some of that too) , but I think the latest 2 buzzwords "objective discussion" are used often as a guise to cover up their real intentions and the fact that some people here aren't really interested in "Objective discussion"

Well, I don't think it's THAT unfair. One is a launch day game and the other is just a demo. Some games do other things, some games other, at the end of the day it can't be that unfair. For example, I think people exagerate when saying "but FM2 has some unbelievable physics" as an excuse for the admittedly sad graphics we are seeing right now. They assume the physics take all the processing power and graphics power of the 360 when in fact they have no reason to believe that, other than what Greenawalt/PR says..........Now, how come last gen Forza 1 had awesome physics when compared to PGR2 and still managed to look VERY comparable........actually, some of you here even say BETTER. Did that rule not apply back then? Or should we simply accept Turn 10 disappointed in the graphics department this time around.......badly?

How could they be when they ignore any and all valid points that don't agree with their argument?

Going on that toca 3 shot it looks better than PGR3 and PGR4 too. Also Acert you're seriously trying to tell me RC2 looks good and Forza 2 doesn't? Objective discussion? From that vid I showed you the graphics are only serviceable? Great shadows, great reflections, incredible physics, nice lighting. Where is the acert that told us everything comes at a cost nothing is free why can't you acknowledge that maybe due to turn10's ambitions for the physics this time around this maybe all they could manage to get out of the 360 for now? Why can't you acknowledge that its possible the incredible physics (which are calculated for all vehicles on the track btw not just your car) forced turn10 to cutback in some areas? Not looking better than RR6, NFS, burnout?

That's for acert

Yea ignore that those games don't run a physics simulation system quite as good as Forza 2 (and I think forza 2 still looks better) RR6 is downright unrealistic I don't even know why someone would compare that to Forza 2... Objective discussion indeed. You continue to ignore what those games lack when you compare them to Forza 2. There is nothing the least bit objective about any of that.

Did anyone mention RR6 here? Well, IMO RR6 looks aweful, plays aweful, and has no physics.

Next I'll here that Gran Turismo on the PS1 looks better too. Ever think you're expecting too much out of the console? If GT 5 gives you 60fps, forza 2 car physics, damage modeling, 60fps reflections, with GT HD calibur car models and lighting you'll start asking wheres the softshadows, global illumination and real-time ambient maps? Good god.

Nah, that's too much. For those of you who read my post "agreeing" with Acert about his Toca comparison, you should know I didn't agree completely. I do expect more from this console, a lot more, and the reason I have such high spectations is because I've seen what the console can do from other games already, and I've seen what happened last generation (the RSC vs. Forza comp). Hey, it was Turn 10 who was expecting a lot more from the console too. They at one point believed it remember? If you think these graphics are good enough, then that would suck to be honest because there would be nothing to look for in terms of graphics for FM3, why is it not right to expect more?. What happened with FM2 is pretty much what happened with Halo 2, a graphics disaster in the middle of development, and that's because of bad planning not because the console could not handle all that...........I guess FM3 will prove this.

In reply to

[quote=Optimusv2]I agree with some of what you're saying Lebato, but I disagree with some of it.

It isn't exactly "saying X game does this better than FM2" that usually presents a problem its more some people taking notice of the admittedly unfair practice of a game that was previously picked apart heavily for its technical shortcomings instantly having its problems conveniently forgotten as a means of setting up the game in question (PGR3) as a posterboy for everything FM2 is doing wrong.
[/quote]

I don't think so, only you have been saying that and my post didn't refer to you.  Besides, it was proven not to be problem when Jin got all defensive about me referring to Rallisport.  Bringing up GTHD too is not adequate for many here.  Formula One, or any other racing game for that matter.

[quote]

Even the famous GT HD comparisons are unfair for reasons I'm sure everyone here is aware of.  In trying to get this message across to this game's detractors there have been many that have said their piece in a very mature manner, but they are instantly accused of being unable to handle criticism of a game they're looking forward to.  Not once throughout these exchanges has anyone other than the people defending the game stopped to acknowledge specific reasons for why these comparisons may be unfair.
[/quote]
Somewhat, but if you don't think the comparison is valid (which it isn't to a point, I agree), you say so right?  You don't call me moron do you?  You don't go crazy.  Some people don't get that though, if you REALLY don't like the comparison, just don't reply to my comment and we'll do fine.

[quote]

Now to the jist of why I disagree its because I think people that have compared forza 2 to PGR3 and GT HD are well aware of the reasons for why the comparisons are unfair, but neglect to acknowledge them as valid points as it would weaken their argument.  There are times when people overreact to some of what is being said about an anticipated game (and I think I'm guilty for some of that too) , but I think the latest 2 buzzwords "objective discussion" are used often as a guise to cover up their real intentions and the fact that some people here aren't [i] really [/i] interested in "Objective discussion"  
[/quote]
Well, I don't think it's THAT unfair.  One is a launch day game and the other is just a demo.  Some games do other things, some games other, at the end of the day it can't be that unfair.  For example, I think people exagerate when saying "but FM2 has some unbelievable physics" as an excuse for the admittedly sad graphics we are seeing right now.  They assume the physics take all the processing power and graphics power of the 360 when in fact they have no reason to believe that, other than what Greenawalt/PR says..........Now, how come last gen Forza 1 had awesome physics when compared to PGR2 and still managed to look VERY comparable........actually, some of you here even say BETTER.  Did that rule not apply back then?  Or should we simply accept Turn 10 disappointed in the graphics department this time around.......badly?

[quote]

How could they be when they ignore any and all valid points that don't agree with their argument?

Going on that toca 3 shot it looks better than PGR3 and PGR4 too.  Also Acert you're seriously trying to tell me RC2 looks good and Forza 2 doesn't?  Objective discussion?  From that vid I showed you the graphics are only serviceable?  Great shadows, great reflections, incredible physics, nice lighting.  Where is the acert that told us everything comes at a cost nothing is free why can't you acknowledge that maybe due to turn10's ambitions for the physics this time around this maybe all they could manage to get out of the 360 for now?  Why can't you acknowledge that its possible the incredible physics (which are calculated for all vehicles on the track btw not just your car) forced turn10 to cutback in some areas?  Not looking better than RR6, NFS, burnout?  
[/quote]
That's for acert

[quote]
Yea ignore that those games don't run a physics simulation system quite as good as Forza 2 (and I think forza 2 still looks better)  RR6 is downright unrealistic I don't even know why someone would compare that to Forza 2...  Objective discussion indeed.  You continue to ignore what those games lack when you compare them to Forza 2.  There is nothing the least bit objective about any of that.
[/quote]

Did anyone mention RR6 here?  Well, IMO RR6 looks aweful, plays aweful, and has no physics.

[quote]
Next I'll here that Gran Turismo on the PS1 looks better too.  Ever think you're expecting too much out of the console?  If GT 5 gives you 60fps, forza 2 car physics, damage modeling, 60fps reflections, with GT HD calibur car models and lighting you'll start asking wheres the softshadows, global illumination and real-time ambient maps?   Good god.[/quote]
Nah, that's too much.  For those of you who read my post "agreeing" with Acert about his Toca comparison, you should know I didn't agree completely.  I do expect more from this console, a lot more, and the reason I have such high spectations is because I've seen what the console can do from other games already, and I've seen what happened last generation (the RSC vs. Forza comp).  Hey, it was Turn 10 who was expecting a lot more from the console too.  They at one point believed it remember?  If you think these graphics are good enough, then that would suck to be honest because there would be nothing to look for in terms of graphics for FM3, why is it not right to expect more?.  What happened with FM2 is pretty much what happened with Halo 2, a graphics disaster in the middle of development, and that's because of bad planning not because the console could not handle all that...........I guess FM3 will prove this.

Jin187

Since 6751 Days

Its amazing how much trash i have to read through before we actually get to some news in this thread, and surprise surprise... 2 pages later, there still isnt any...

EDIT: Just saw your link kenshin, nice :)

In reply to

Optimusv2

Since 6899 Days

Yea ultimately I'll just no longer have discussions regarding forza 2 as it always seems to lead down a bad path.

Also great responses Lebato it didn't turn out as bad as I thought it would. I was thinking whether or not I should've just edited out the entire thing and forgot about thinking it would erupt a flamefest all is still well I guess. Ya acert mentioned forza 2 not looking much better than RR6 if at all, but oh well I'll just forget about it. I know exactly why I plan to buy this and why I've had my mind set on it well before I saw anything so forget everyone elses opinion of it. I'll have a dandy time with the worse than xbox graphics :D

Maybe I and others overestimated what the devs would be able to get out of the console on their first go. Atleast the groundwork is there for an amazing racer they have plenty of time to build on it for Forza 3 and I think with Forza 3 people that are probably disappointed with this game and wont give it a chance due to its graphics will be onboard for Forza 3. It'll likely end up being the game everyone expected Forza 2 to be. Guess every dev needs experience on the console regardless of how much time they'd had with it. Some are better than others apparently.

In reply to

Yea ultimately I'll just no longer have discussions regarding forza 2 as it always seems to lead down a bad path.

Also great responses Lebato it didn't turn out as bad as I thought it would.  I was thinking whether or not I should've just edited out the entire thing and forgot about thinking it would erupt a flamefest all is still well I guess.  Ya acert mentioned forza 2 not looking much better than RR6 if at all, but oh well I'll just forget about it.  I know exactly why I plan to buy this and why I've had my mind set on it well before I saw anything so forget everyone elses opinion of it.  I'll have a dandy time with the worse than xbox graphics :D

Maybe I and others overestimated what the devs would be able to get out of the console on their first go.  Atleast the groundwork is there for an amazing racer they have plenty of time to build on it for Forza 3 and I think with Forza 3 people that are probably disappointed with this game and wont give it a chance due to its graphics will be onboard for Forza 3.  It'll likely end up being the game everyone expected Forza 2 to be.  Guess every dev needs experience on the console regardless of how much time they'd had with it.  Some are better than others apparently.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

anm8rjp

Since 7704 Days

More at:
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/786/786552p1.html

Forza 2 Career Mode: Club Races
Dare to dream about driving a Lamborghini.
by Hilary Goldstein

May 8, 2007 - In three weeks, Forza Motorsport 2 speeds onto store shelves. To help make the wait just a little more unbearable, IGN is guiding you through Forza's lengthy career mode. Last time, you got a taste of the first few hours of Forza 2 and life in the Proving Grounds. Now that the training wheels are off, it's time to explore the next two tiers of Forza 2's career mode: Amateur Cup Races and Manufacturer Club Races.

Both Cup and Club races have ten events, each broken into three races. To earn gold in an event, you must come in first in all three races. Sure, you could settle for the cash that comes with silver, but only gold earns some of the prize cars. These aren't scrub vehicles. The majority of prize cars are worthy of a spot in your garage.

Amateur Cup Races are the standard progression you'd expect in any racing game. It's more of the same from the Proving Grounds events, but with tougher AI and sometimes slightly suped-up cars. The restrictions on some of the events add a bit more variety. The best is certainly the American Iron Runoff, open only to pre-1975 American muscle cars. My powder blue '69 Charger was the prettiest beast on the track. The Iron Runoff was a bit of a struggle at first and the toughest set of races for me so far in Forza 2. That's because the Charger needs a lot of nursing around turns, particularly at high speeds. But I came out the other end a better driver.

In reply to

More at:
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/786/786552p1.html

Forza 2 Career Mode: Club Races
Dare to dream about driving a Lamborghini.
by Hilary Goldstein

May 8, 2007 - In three weeks, Forza Motorsport 2 speeds onto store shelves. To help make the wait just a little more unbearable, IGN is guiding you through Forza's lengthy career mode. Last time, you got a taste of the first few hours of Forza 2 and life in the Proving Grounds. Now that the training wheels are off, it's time to explore the next two tiers of Forza 2's career mode: Amateur Cup Races and Manufacturer Club Races.

Both Cup and Club races have ten events, each broken into three races. To earn gold in an event, you must come in first in all three races. Sure, you could settle for the cash that comes with silver, but only gold earns some of the prize cars. These aren't scrub vehicles. The majority of prize cars are worthy of a spot in your garage.

Amateur Cup Races are the standard progression you'd expect in any racing game. It's more of the same from the Proving Grounds events, but with tougher AI and sometimes slightly suped-up cars. The restrictions on some of the events add a bit more variety. The best is certainly the American Iron Runoff, open only to pre-1975 American muscle cars. My powder blue '69 Charger was the prettiest beast on the track. The Iron Runoff was a bit of a struggle at first and the toughest set of races for me so far in Forza 2. That's because the Charger needs a lot of nursing around turns, particularly at high speeds. But I came out the other end a better driver.

[URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6425/forzamotorsport22007050as4.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Scarface

Since 6993 Days

love the reflections in this game. gonna have to use the hood cam i think.

anyone know the default cam, or the one Turn 10 want us to use? (eg.PGR team recommended the cockpit for the best experience)

In reply to

"Black people are called coloured, because we come in all colours" - michael jackson

Driftwood

Since 7670 Days

The demo might show up today (or not ^^) but just in case it doesn't some more in-game screenshots. They don't look bad at all for the most part.

In reply to

Every cloud has a silver lining...

The Dreadful Unit #7

Bingham67

Since 6624 Days

Nice shows alot of damage that Enzo is totally battered lol.

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