I do have to say though.. I do sorta miss some stuff from Halo 3. But not so much that I'm not already starting to prefer Reach. As it stands Halo 3 is still the best and most complete Halo game ever made, but if they keep improving what we're already seeing here, they're going to blow it away. It'll be sad to see bungie depart from a franchise that they obviously crafted with a lot of care. You've got big shoes to fill, Microsoft.

I'm seeing a lot of mixed opinions on weapon balance. I think it's important to remember this is a Beta. It's such a fun and solid experience already it's easy to forget that.

Nearly all the weapon balance issues I've read here and on GAF can be looked at both ways. There are people who hate Slayer Pro precisely because they start with the DMR and see that as leading to the sort of "Whichever team gets the power weapons first dominates the game" scenarios you could get in Halo 3 with AR starts. Then you see the opposite view that starting with the AR/pistol plus two grenades suck and lead to the exact same thing. Who's right? It's hard to say.

The good thing about doing beta's of this size is that Bungie can collect data from hundreds of thousands of players rather than rely on a few from vocal minority who may or may not be upset that elements & their tactics they bring to the game aren't the same as the previous games.

At this point, I would be very very cautious in suggesting changes. I'm not saying things are perfect but for nearly every comment I read like "melee/grenades/ability X is overpowered/underpowered" there is a viable counter-argument given the quite deliberate changes made to the health system and weapon sandbox.

With the AR specifically, it's very hard to mentally get out of Halo 3 mode and go for the early melee. The intention as far as I can tell is that at close range, an AR player should beat a pistol/DMR player unless they happen to be very skilled. In practice however, I think this demands more intelligent use of the AR player as well in waiting for the 'pop' cue to go for the melee. I haven't got this down yet but assuming this is viable, then in my view the AR is fulfilling it's role pretty adequately in the context of the sandbox.

I think the same applies in part to those complaining about the two hit melee. The design intention to me is that there should be greater focus on encounter distance. That is to say, the weapons now have very clearly defined effective ranges and the trick to being good is to manage this distance so it's in your favour. Thus, if you've got a pistol and being charged by an AR you should be back-pedalling. At the closest range, melee should in theory dominate and even then, you definitely have to get hit twice if you have even an ounce of shields. If you're allowing someone to get in that close and get hit twice, my view on it would be that you probably deserve what you get!

Still it's early days yet. Two weeks of sustained play is likely to give rise to some general trends.

And I love SwordBase! I don't understand the bitching about it.

To be fair, there's a smallish community on GAF (aka HaloGAF) who are pretty knowledgeable and frequent other places like HBO, Ascendant Justice etc. I wasn't talking about GAF as whole but a few informed posters who are arguing the toss both ways. Even so, individual opinions need to be weighed in context, of course.

I think generally speaking, the changes they've made are with a view to having the game play a certain way. A certain way that's distinctly different from Halo 1, 2 or 3. That's a good thing and once people get used to it and it becomes familiar, I think they'll be less nerf this, buff that type comments.

I've already changed my opinion on the grenades for a start. I'm going to try and see if I can make decent use of the AR tonight.

That doesn't mean the AR shouldn't be tweaked. I also completely disagree that they ruined the carbine in Halo 3. The beta carbine was overpowered (versus the BR). There's no OP basic weapons in Reach. The pistol feels overpowered but only because all of the other weapons suck :)

The BR is impossible to 4SK at medium range? I'm no pro and that's totally not true. Hell, if that were true, you second point would have to be false. If it were impossible to use the BR effective at medium range, than the Carbine would still be better, since it has no spread and no recoil (not that the BR has any real recoil). The Halo 3 pistol doesn't even suck, it's just not good enough to be a primary weapon. I think that was the point. Right now all of my kills in the Reach beta greatly favor the magnum and melee. I think the magnum is more a personal preference though, but the fact that nearly everyone's most kills and most deaths are via melee speaks volumes about the "trifecta" balance.

But don't get me wrong here, I don't want them messing with the pistol much... I just think the DMR, NR, and AR all need serious adjustments.

I figured out the AR quickly and am owning people with it--but I still think it is painfully obvious it is poorly designed. My first thought is always: Find something else. The range is very poor (just watch how close you have to be to get a red cross hair). Really you are better off against AR players by using the Pistol, toss a nade or two to weaken/position close behind cover and then move in for melee. They won't hit you at range at all and it is so weak close in they will go down with a shot or melee before you shields are even breached. It is a triple crap weapon as is: no range, no damage. The third pile is the bad one: it really is owned by all other guns. It has no niche where the AR really comes into its own. I would take the DMR over the AR at any range. In Halo 3 at close-medium range the AR>BR and I would say my BR skills are top class.

As much as I disliked the AR in Halo 3, at least in close range it was lethal. Halo 3's AR+melee was more of an issue of players running at eachother (poor man's tactic) to allow the melee setup. The popping shields alleviate most of that as you have to wait for the shields to pop to melee so I am seeing far fewer double melees. What I am seeing a LOT of is a GROUP of AR players all getting really close hopping around.

As it currently stands, as I learned last night, I don't fear the AR. Just get something else, back way up so I have a good field of view, and just pick people off with nades/precision fire.

I was pulling out some major ownage last night in the Arena (had a 18+ (25-7) and 19+ (don't remember the exact total) my last couple games as well as a 13-4 in for good measure. The game is fun. I love it. It is only the beta. But I hope they don't stick with their AR design. Actually I think the pistol and DMR could use a nice bumb too because the power weapons just plain own. They totally change the flow of the battle with few effective counters. If the other team gets the Plasma Pucking auto-fire and the Laser, maybe a shottie for close in protection, you are gonna see your team effectively owned until those weapons are exhausted. Running and hiding is the best tactic.

In Halo 3 it was the reverse IMO. If someone had the SL, a S. Rifle, or a Rocket Launcher you could pick you places to gain the advantage with a needler, a BR, or another weapon. I was killed more times than I would like to admit with the Laser by AR players.

This is all my opinion. I don't necessarily want them to make it more brutal. I would like that, but Slayer Pro in Arena is really solid for that as well as SWAT. I could use the DMR being a little better, yeah, as I don't like bullet sponges and think the game essentially allows you to escape almost any medium and long range engagement you are losing and you are stupidly in the open by slipping away. It gives you a ton of time. So I personally don't like that. The problem is the power weapons are the reverse.

The good news is hunting in packs OWNS.

They just need to fix the spawn interface.

It's not a poor tactic if it works, and works. Just like rushing someone in Reach w/ 2x melee works if they're not smart enough to either run away or force a draw. Since many of those fights do end in draws, I've started rushing with melee+pistol at close range, and it's equally effective. As it stands, I don't see much reason to use the AR at all. The pistol rules.

Sorry Deft if I came across pushing, I just am passionate about not being thrown to the wolves with a spoon :PHere here! Give me a 2 shot DMR errrr 4 shot :P Seriously, I would take a bigger bloom/slightly slower 4 shoot DMR or a 5 shot with less bloom + faster firing. But I like the idea of the bloom as it plays into the skill aspect.

The gun issue is the Temporal AA. They are blending frames which means fast moving objects, like the gun, get a really wonky "Ghosting" like effect. I read today on B3D Bungie had said to have removed the TSS from the gun in the newest build.

I prefer the water though. Not as interactive, but much higher quality and prettier and better splash effects.

I have to say, my melee total is rising at a rapid clip but I put that down to the fact I've sussed the pop in the shields and I was a very melee heavy player to begin with. Using green thumb it's almost a reflex action. What I'm not doing is back pedaling enough but that'll come.

But for all these melee kills, how many of them were precipitated by an AR? I don't think the number of kills you get with it is necessarily totally indicative of how useful it is overall. Granted, you could do the exactly the same with the pistol.

I'm just a bit reluctant to call things over/under-powered based on just a few nights play. If by the time the beta ends nobody has sussed out a good way to use the AR then by all means but what I'm seeing right now is a lot of people still in Halo 3 mode going for the melee too early and I think that muddies the waters a bit. Certainly, I'm getting a lot of double melee kills because they hit me too early and I'm quicker at getting the second whack in (<3 green thumb).

As far as I understood, the design intention in the first place was to have skilled players use the pistol over the AR. Gentlemen sat on message-boards discussing weapon balance were always likely to fall into the "who needs the AR" category. The question I would be asking would be, are those who aren't good enough at aiming to get by with the pistol completely screwed if they stick with the AR. Given the strength of melee/grenades and my deaths with it, maybe, maybe not. I can't draw a definitive opinion on that either way yet.

The DMR suffers a bit because of everyone's experience with the battle rifle but it's certainly hard to use effectively.

These videos are always so well done. Halo: Reach - Mythbusters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPFQCVYSxkk