Modern Warfare 2 Thread - New Awesome Launch Trailer! - Main forum

Since 6999 Days

Posted by Acert93

That said, if you want to avoid camping get out of TDM.

I mostly play TDM or MTDM, and I still haven't had much of a problem with campers to be honest. Sitting in one spot for more than a couple kills is guaranteed death especially with the killcam. I've probably encountered worse camping in some objective modes. Spawning is less erratic, and attentions are divided between objectives and enemies. That's a much friendlier environment for someone to just chill half way across the map with a sniper rifle. Granted, it's much less of a problem when my teammates have mics and use them.

if i went predator missile / harrier strike, chopper gunner / ac130, nuke it would be easy enough to get the first few kills needed then camp somewhere to rack up the rest from streak rewards.

Shit, maybe you should do that then instead of willfully limiting yourself with your chosen killstreak rewards. I mean, since it's so easy to get nukes an' all.

Most people who still invest their time into fighters value a certain amount of balance that progression naturally damages.. and unfortunately (and it is unfortunate) that level of gameplay has taken a back seat to gimmicks that are aimed at keeping the casual audience more involved.

How does progression in MW2 ruin the balance? You play more...you get better weapons and perks...making you better equipped than people starting out. But...the game is apparently for noobs and has perks that level the playing field? But...if you've been playing long enough to not be a noob, you'd have access to these same perks thus eliminating any potential artificial balance created by said perks.

I don't get how the game can be unbalanced due to progression and perks and also balanced by said perks...especially when people who have been playing longer are privy to the same things the noobs are.

In reply to

[quote=Acert93]That said, if you want to avoid camping get out of TDM.[/quote]
I mostly play TDM or MTDM, and I still haven't had much of a problem with campers to be honest. Sitting in one spot for more than a couple kills is guaranteed death especially with the killcam. I've probably encountered worse camping in some objective modes. Spawning is less erratic, and attentions are divided between objectives and enemies. That's a much friendlier environment for someone to just chill half way across the map with a sniper rifle. Granted, it's much less of a problem when my teammates have mics and use them.

[quote]if i went predator missile / harrier strike, chopper gunner / ac130, nuke it would be easy enough to get the first few kills needed then camp somewhere to rack up the rest from streak rewards.[/quote]
Shit, maybe you should do that then instead of willfully limiting yourself with your chosen killstreak rewards. I mean, since it's so easy to get nukes an' all.

[quote]Most people who still invest their time into fighters value a certain amount of balance that progression naturally damages.. and unfortunately (and it is unfortunate) that level of gameplay has taken a back seat to gimmicks that are aimed at keeping the casual audience more involved.[/quote]
How does progression in MW2 ruin the balance? You play more...you get better weapons and perks...making you better equipped than people starting out. But...the game is apparently for noobs and has perks that level the playing field?  But...if you've been playing long enough to not be a noob, you'd have access to these same perks thus eliminating any potential artificial balance created by said perks.

I don't get how the game can be unbalanced due to progression and perks and also balanced by said perks...especially when people who have been playing longer are privy to the same things the noobs are.

Zapp Brannigan: If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

GriftGFX

Since 7014 Days

Posted by Ronsauce

How does progression in MW2 ruin the balance? You play more...you get better weapons and perks...making you better equipped than people starting out. But...the game is apparently for noobs and has perks that level the playing field? But...if you've been playing long enough to not be a noob, you'd have access to these same perks thus eliminating any potential artificial balance created by said perks.

I don't get how the game can be unbalanced due to progression and perks and also balanced by said perks...especially when people who have been playing longer are privy to the same things the noobs are.

70 levels of perks and unlocks and attachments are f'n impossible to properly balance for real competition, that's why. And perks, attachments, and kill streaks supplement skill at any level. Awareness, reaction, movement, and aim will still give you an edge over any configuration, I'm sure, but that edge is dulled by unlocks and upgrades.

I'm not even saying that I don't see the appeal in unlocks. It's just annoying that it's in pretty much every game now.

In reply to

[quote=Ronsauce]
How does progression in MW2 ruin the balance? You play more...you get better weapons and perks...making you better equipped than people starting out. But...the game is apparently for noobs and has perks that level the playing field?  But...if you've been playing long enough to not be a noob, you'd have access to these same perks thus eliminating any potential artificial balance created by said perks.

I don't get how the game can be unbalanced due to progression and perks and also balanced by said perks...especially when people who have been playing longer are privy to the same things the noobs are.[/quote]

70 levels of perks and unlocks and attachments are f'n impossible to properly balance for real competition, that's why. And perks, attachments, and kill streaks supplement skill at any level. Awareness, reaction, movement, and aim will still give you an edge over any configuration, I'm sure, but that edge is dulled by unlocks and upgrades.

I'm not even saying that I don't see the appeal in unlocks. It's just annoying that it's in pretty much every game now.

mt_sabao

Since 6445 Days

Posted by Acert93

Glitchers are a problem but I didn't see a single jav one the entire weekend. I only had a couple rounds (less than 5) where I have seen them ruined by such.

Anyhow, I haven't seen a single nuke and only a handful of AC130s. I am surprised at how MW2 really doesn't allow wholesale rapage of the newbs who cannot play. Hit boxes are fairly big and there is a lot of magnatism and adhesion.

If you are seeing a ton of nukes and high end killstreaks my only real conclusion is you are FEEDING the other team streaks.

Sorry, the other team isn't going to get 25 kills without YOU giving them long streaks of death.

So the question is why are you dieing 3-5 times in a row without kills? I admit, I sometimes die 3 or 4 times in a row and it is all because I spawn and RUSH. When I stop, take a good look where I am, find some action, and flank intelligently I don't have this problem.

Use the perimeter and elevation, ambush choke points, and flank firefights you will stop feeding the other team 25+ kill streaks!

Yes!
Acert, I noticed your kd ratio increased dramatically. Any big change that did this? I started on the wrong foot (CoD4 kd ratio was a consistent 1.2), with around an embarrassing low 0.6!! I was being owed so much i couldn't believe. Now i seem to be exploring better configurations and i'm playing better. kd ratio slowly rising, now around 0.86 and I hope to get to a decent 1 anytime soon. But i was quite impressed by your sudden increase.

As a side note, on around 20h of play I've only seen the nuke twice and the javelin exploit once (yesterday), but the dual shotties (1882 or whatever they are called)all the fucking time. (i play mostly domination).

In reply to

[quote=Acert93]

Glitchers are a problem but I didn't see a single jav one the entire weekend. I only had a couple rounds (less than 5) where I have seen them ruined by such.

Anyhow, I haven't seen a single nuke and only a handful of AC130s. I am surprised at how MW2 really doesn't allow wholesale rapage of the newbs who cannot play. Hit boxes are fairly big and there is a lot of magnatism and adhesion.

If you are seeing a ton of nukes and high end killstreaks my only real conclusion is you are FEEDING the other team streaks.

Sorry, the other team isn't going to get 25 kills without YOU giving them long streaks of death.

So the question is why are you dieing 3-5 times in a row without kills? I admit, I sometimes die 3 or 4 times in a row and it is all because I spawn and RUSH. When I stop, take a good look where I am, find some action, and flank intelligently I don't have this problem.

Use the perimeter and elevation, ambush choke points, and flank firefights you will stop feeding the other team 25+ kill streaks![/quote]
Yes! 
Acert, I noticed your kd ratio increased dramatically. Any big change that did this? I started on the wrong foot (CoD4 kd ratio was a consistent 1.2), with around an embarrassing low 0.6!! I was being owed so much i couldn't believe. Now i seem to be exploring better configurations and i'm playing better. kd ratio slowly rising, now around 0.86 and I hope to get to a decent 1 anytime soon. But i was quite impressed by your sudden increase.

As a side note, on around 20h of play I've only seen the nuke twice and the javelin exploit once (yesterday), but the dual shotties (1882 or whatever they are called)all the fucking time. (i play mostly domination).

ManThatYouFear

Since 6957 Days

This makes for fantastic reading while eating at work :)

In reply to

I think i have stood in poo

mt_sabao

Since 6445 Days

this makes for an excelent reading WHILE working! =D

what do you guys say we set up a mw2 gaming night? quite a lot of people playing it on 360. i'm on central europe so anytime this week 22h central european time. anyone up for it?

In reply to

Acert93

Since 6984 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

Already explained: "It's probably because shooters skew more towards a casual audience than fighters."

Fighting games when, you know when they sold, were the cats meow on the 16bit and 32bit consoles which were chiefly dominated by mainstream consumers and children ...

In reply to

Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

GriftGFX

Since 7014 Days

Posted by Acert93

Fighting games when, you know when they sold, were the cats meow on the 16bit and 32bit consoles which were chiefly dominated by mainstream consumers and children ...

Which is, ya know, totally not relevant... totally not even a counterpoint. I mean, really, what's the point? That fighters aren't as popular today as they were ten years ago? If so.. uh.. duh?

Fighters have a higher learning curve than most FPS, and most of their dedicated fans are, well, dedicated. It's not the least bit surprising then that they're more resistant to change... but there is a huge hardcore FPS audience out there too... and no one is making games for them anymore. I wish "Severity" didn't die with the CPL..

Obviously progression is popular in FPS, I just find it shocking that fans of the genre accept it. It's one of the chief reasons why every FPS released in the last five years has had to be heavily modded for competitive play. If you can't see the similarity between injecting RPG elements into a different competitive genre with much of the same motivation that you see in FPS, than I don't know what to say.. except that it's not nearly as crazy as you seem to think it is. If you don't think that progression is detrimental to the developers ability to properly balance the game, than we'll just have to disagree. No biggy.

Someone on GAF recently started a topic asking if gamers cared too much about balanced today. I laughed.

I'm pretty sure games like Street Fighter 4 and Soul Calibur 4 sold plenty well for whatever it's worth.. not that sales are actually a valuable indication of quality.

In reply to

[quote=Acert93]

Fighting games when, you know when they sold, were the cats meow on the 16bit and 32bit consoles which were chiefly dominated by mainstream consumers and children ...[/quote]

Which is, ya know, totally not relevant... totally not even a counterpoint. I mean, really, what's the point? That fighters aren't as popular today as they were ten years ago? If so.. uh.. duh?

Fighters have a higher learning curve than most FPS, and most of their dedicated fans are, well, dedicated. It's not the least bit surprising then that they're more resistant to change... [i]but[/i] there is a huge hardcore FPS audience out there too... and no one is making games [i]for them[/i] anymore. I wish "Severity" didn't die with the CPL..

Obviously progression [i]is[/i] popular in FPS, I just find it shocking that fans of the genre accept it. It's one of the chief reasons why every FPS released in the last five years has had to be [i]heavily[/i] modded for competitive play. If you can't see the similarity between injecting RPG elements into a different competitive genre with much of the same motivation that you see in FPS, than I don't know what to say.. except that it's not nearly as crazy as you seem to think it is. If you don't think that progression is detrimental to the developers ability to properly balance the game, than we'll just have to disagree. [i]No biggy[/i].

Someone on GAF recently started a topic asking if gamers cared too much about balanced today. I laughed.

I'm pretty sure games like Street Fighter 4 and Soul Calibur 4 sold [i]plenty well[/i] for whatever it's worth.. not that sales are actually a valuable indication of quality.

Inflatable

Since 7651 Days

I read Gooseman was working on a new CS-like FPS game.. So there is still hope..

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http://www.cyberwarriors.nl
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Ronsauce

Since 6999 Days

Maybe make a thread dedicated to it then... no point in making this thread even more inhospitable to people who've been enjoying the game.

In reply to

Zapp Brannigan: If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

ManThatYouFear

Since 6957 Days

From what i can read Ron, and yes i add nothing to this thread what so ever, i just enjoy reading it :)

Mind you, do i ever add anything of readable use ?.........*crys for been slightly loony*

wait what... huh

anyway ron.. yeah

Oh yeah that was it, make a MW2 thread asking only people to post in it are the ones who are enjoying in it, kinda like a.. what they called

christ she got singstar on again, fucks sake have mercy on me

poll... yeah like a poll, mainly cause i am curios because this game just gets that much hate i would like to see if there is any love for it

Maybe a zombie mode would make me turn my head....

OMFG! the woman just farted and it stinks of eggs, i had eggs on muffin other day was really nice, scrambled eggs because last time i had egg muffin i bit into it and the yolk burst and went all down my top, i looked retarded...

I might go watch lost now, but my balls itch.

In reply to

I think i have stood in poo

Ronsauce

Since 6999 Days

poll... yeah like a poll, mainly cause i am curios because this game just gets that much hate i would like to see if there is any love for it

It seems that the fans of PC MW1 aren't keen on MW2(very understandably so), but some of the folks playing MW2 on their 360s(maybe PS3s as well?) are enjoying it. I have a few issues with the game...like overpowered akimbo 1887s and the FPS constant of getting shot by someone whose head is the only thing visible(if I can't see his gun, then his gun shouldn't be able to shoot me god damn it!), but I'm still finding it fun as hell and generally do quite well without resorting to dual shotties, noobtubes, or a witchblade build.

I might go watch lost now, but my balls itch.

I see no reason why one should interfere with the other. Scratching one's balls can only serve to improve the Lost watching experience.

In reply to

Zapp Brannigan: If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

ManThatYouFear

Since 6957 Days

It actually did improve the experience :)

Tomorrow might try someone elses balls..................................na

In reply to

I think i have stood in poo

TheBeagle

Since 6619 Days

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAuohk1VAew Jesus H Christ. How many glitches does this game have?

In reply to

Band myspace = http://www.myspace.com/skipcanyon

Tomarru

Since 6086 Days

HAHAHAHA, thats brilliant, just what i wanted to see, another super cheat.
Rust is perhaps the worst map ive ever played, its constant spawn rapage, spawning on top of other people, inside them, beside them, over and over again. The map should be limited to 4 players max.

Also, gonna get a hub to split the cable goin to my ps3 and get rid of the 360 wifi, the game is 100% based on lag, cant tell you how many times ive fired grenades / thrown grenades / knifed only for them not to register while i die in the process of using them, then the knife anim plays when i spawn. Also watched a good few death cams which show me nowhere near where i actually was, allows players to run round my shield to my back etc, im lookin dead at them all the time yet end up knifed in the back...kept wondering how it happened...its all lag baby, yea.

You would think with them throwing together people from all over the world they would at least try to compensate for differences in ping (3 bars vs 4 bars is a BIG difference in reality) but i guess that would have been too much effort.

In reply to

HAHAHAHA, thats brilliant, just what i wanted to see, another super cheat.
Rust is perhaps the worst map ive ever played, its constant spawn rapage, spawning on top of other people, inside them, beside them, over and over again. The map should be limited to 4 players max.

Also, gonna get a hub to split the cable goin to my ps3 and get rid of the 360 wifi, the game is 100% based on lag, cant tell you how many times ive fired grenades / thrown grenades / knifed only for them not to register while i die in the process of using them, then the knife anim plays when i spawn. Also watched a good few death cams which show me nowhere near where i actually was, allows players to run round my shield to my back etc, im lookin dead at them all the time yet end up knifed in the back...kept wondering how it happened...its all lag baby, yea.

You would think with them throwing together people from all over the world they would at least try to compensate for differences in ping (3 bars vs 4 bars is a BIG difference in reality) but i guess that would have been too much effort.

ManThatYouFear

Since 6957 Days

I did not see a cheat myself, i just saw bullshit.

In reply to

I think i have stood in poo

Ronsauce

Since 6999 Days

That is going to hurt his accuracy stat :P

In reply to

Zapp Brannigan: If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

Viginti_Tres

Since 6515 Days

Posted by Ronsauce

That is going to hurt his accuracy stat :P

See, it's balanced, IW really thought this out.

The video is damn hilarious, though.

In reply to

RC_Master

Since 6916 Days

Unforunately, with how quickly you can get killed, lag can really own you sometimes. As with Tomarru, plenty of times i've been killed thinking 'how the fuck did they do that?!" when I've got a riot shield pointed straight at them, for example, whereas in reality, they'd already seen me and had walked all the way around me and killed me in the back when on my end they'd barely entered the room. (slight exaggeration, but thats what happens). Or, I start getting shot, I duck down below a hill/box whatever, and die. While on killcam, I was just standing there.

The lag compensation is really bad.

Also, side-note: is the sit-rep perk worth anything at all? Is it worth even thinking about going for its challenges or Pro version? I've been using it for a few hours of play now, and haven't managed to disable a single enemy device with it. I can see a few from time to time, but can never get in the position to actually take them out. Better on a small team game than Ground War maybe?

In reply to

Ignorance is the true enemy of all things.

Suhweet!

Inflatable

Since 7651 Days

Posted by RC_Master

\The lag compensation is really bad.

Lag compensation shouldn't be needed..

Just add dedicated servers like any proper (PC) FPS game, and let people play with normal (read: <30ms) latency.. Works much better then the current listen server system that offers latency over 100ms more as a standard then exception, and then trying to hide it with lag compensation..

Even more casual PC gamers are starting to complain about it now, which is very telling.. Slowly everybody still playing the game will get the clue why it's such a failure..

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http://www.cyberwarriors.nl
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RC_Master

Since 6916 Days

Posted by Inflatable

Lag compensation shouldn't be needed..

It always bemuses me how some people seem to think dedicated servers are the end-all of everything. Even if you have them, there are still going to be people in situations where they want to play the game but their ping is going to be above 30ms. Entire countries or regions are often not covered by dedicated servers. And when support for the game ends? Bye-bye play time.

Anyway, different topic: I hate being matched into a game and all I have time for (in 5 seconds of play) is to fire off a single stinger missile. I get the harrier, thats cool, but not before it takes out one of my team for the game winning kill >.< At least i'm seen in the kill cam to own the harrier.

In reply to

Ignorance is the true enemy of all things.

Suhweet!

Inflatable

Since 7651 Days

Posted by RC_Master

It always bemuses me how some people seem to think dedicated servers are the end-all of everything. Even if you have them, there are still going to be people in situations where they want to play the game but their ping is going to be above 30ms. Entire countries or regions are often not covered by dedicated servers. And when support for the game ends? Bye-bye play time.

There's no reason why not every country or region would not be covered by dedicated servers if the publisher/developer lets the public host their own dedicated servers.. Things go bad when publishers/developers decide to keep all control to themself, not allow publicly run dedicated servers.. That's when countries and regions get not covered.. And not using dedicated servers at all makes it worse for everybody.. It's also publisher/developer controlled closed systems like Xbox Live and IWnet that can be shut down at any time, not publicly run dedicated servers..

So stop being bemused and learn your stuff about online gaming and the systems behind it.. I know plenty after about 15 years of experience with hosting (dedicated) servers for gaming and other programs, last few years on my own fiber internetconection at home.. I even worked for an ISP in the early years on this century that hosted one of the biggest gameserver farms in Europe at the time.. So yeah, I think I know a little bit about online gaming and the systems behind it.. Believer me when I say MW2 online system on PC is crap! It has thrown the online experience back to the dial-up age on PC (last century) when pings of 150+ ms were normal.. It gives PC FPS gamers all the right to complain..

In reply to

[quote=RC_Master]
It always bemuses me how some people seem to think dedicated servers are the end-all of everything. Even if you have them, there are still going to be people in situations where they want to play the game but their ping is going to be above 30ms. Entire countries or regions are often not covered by dedicated servers. And when support for the game ends? Bye-bye play time.[/quote]
There's no reason why not every country or region would not be covered by dedicated servers if the publisher/developer lets the public host their own dedicated servers.. Things go bad when publishers/developers decide to keep all control to themself, not allow publicly run dedicated servers.. That's when countries and regions get not covered.. And not using dedicated servers at all makes it worse for everybody.. It's also publisher/developer controlled closed systems like Xbox Live and IWnet that can be shut down at any time, not publicly run dedicated servers..

So stop being bemused and learn your stuff about online gaming and the systems behind it.. I know plenty after about 15 years of experience with hosting (dedicated) servers for gaming and other programs, last few years on my own fiber internetconection at home.. I even worked for an ISP in the early years on this century that hosted one of the biggest gameserver farms in Europe at the time.. So yeah, I think I know a little bit about online gaming and the systems behind it.. Believer me when I say MW2 online system on PC is crap! It has thrown the online experience back to the dial-up age on PC (last century) when pings of 150+ ms were normal.. It gives PC FPS gamers all the right to complain..

http://www.cyberwarriors.nl
http://home.xmsnet.nl/bigbear/mycar.jpg

Ronsauce

Since 6999 Days

It has thrown the online experience back to the dial-up age on PC (last century) when pings of 150+ ms were normal.. It gives PC FPS gamers all the right to complain..

Man, my old dial-up used to get me pings of 300+ in TFC and CS, and my first "high-speed" connection still averaged me above 150. This makes pings from 50-100 seem quite tolerable to me.

In reply to

Zapp Brannigan: If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

GriftGFX

Since 7014 Days

Posted by RC_Master

It always bemuses me how some people seem to think dedicated servers are the end-all of everything. Even if you have them, there are still going to be people in situations where they want to play the game but their ping is going to be above 30ms. Entire countries or regions are often not covered by dedicated servers. And when support for the game ends? Bye-bye play time.

I play on Euro servers all the time with 100-150ms pings, and it's playable, but far from ideal. Beyond those levels, it's downright unacceptable.. and you're talking about a system which takes the less-than-ideal and turns it into the average. The reason it's really a big deal is that it makes competition entirely impractical. Clans in the United States all rent central servers (Texas or Chicago) so that we can compete with people located anywhere in our 3000 mile wide country. Now you're enforcing a situation where west coast players and teams can't effectively mingle with the east without someone having a massive advantage as the host. It's stupid.

Never mind all of the other important things that IWNet kicks to the curb.

It is a bit like kicking a dead horse at this point. This is the future of Call of Duty, and it's hardly a "Failure." This game cornered the casual market, which last I checked is about a billion times bigger than the hardcore audience. Infinity Ward doesn't care about making Call of Duty the best anymore, so long as it sells better than anything else out there. So long as suckers still buy shit they're going to complain about, etc. Dedicated servers are just the first point on a bullet list of things that they would need to fix to make Call of Duty interesting again.

I still have a little hope though... not for MW2 obviously... but maybe for future products.

This makes pings from 50-100 seem quite tolerable to me.

No one is pinging 50ms on average in MW2.

In reply to

[quote=RC_Master]
It always bemuses me how some people seem to think dedicated servers are the end-all of everything. Even if you have them, there are still going to be people in situations where they want to play the game but their ping is going to be above 30ms. Entire countries or regions are often not covered by dedicated servers. And when support for the game ends? Bye-bye play time.[/quote]

I play on Euro servers all the time with 100-150ms pings, and it's playable, but far from ideal. Beyond those levels, it's downright unacceptable.. and you're talking about a system which takes the less-than-ideal and turns it into the average. The reason it's [i]really[/i] a big deal is that it makes competition entirely impractical. Clans in the United States [i]all[/i] rent central servers (Texas or Chicago) so that we can compete with people located anywhere in our 3000 mile wide country. Now you're enforcing a situation where west coast players and teams can't effectively mingle with the east without [i]someone[/i] having a massive advantage as the host. It's stupid.

Never mind all of the other important things that IWNet kicks to the curb.

It is a bit like kicking a dead horse at this point. This is the future of Call of Duty, and it's hardly a "Failure." This game cornered the casual market, which last I checked is about a billion times bigger than the hardcore audience. Infinity Ward doesn't care about making Call of Duty the [i]best[/i] anymore, so long as it sells better than anything else out there. So long as suckers still buy shit they're going to complain about, etc. Dedicated servers are just the first point on a bullet list of things that they would need to fix to make Call of Duty interesting again.

I still have a little hope though... not for MW2 obviously... but [i]maybe[/i] for future products.

[quote]This makes pings from 50-100 seem quite tolerable to me. [/quote]

No one is pinging 50ms [i]on average[/i] in MW2.

Ronsauce

Since 6999 Days

This game cornered the casual market, which last I checked is about a billion times bigger than the hardcore audience.

I'd prefer to say the game cornered the non-competitive market. I haven't encountered too many WiiMoms playing it online.

In reply to

Zapp Brannigan: If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

GriftGFX

Since 7014 Days

Posted by Ronsauce

This game cornered the casual market, which last I checked is about a billion times bigger than the hardcore audience.

I'd prefer to say the game cornered the non-competitive market. I haven't encountered too many WiiMoms playing it online.

You don't need to be a Soccer Mom/"non-gamer" to be a casual FPS player.

I've played hundreds of hours of Halo 3 that I consider to be pretty casual.

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Modern Warfare 2 Thread - New Awesome Launch Trailer!

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