Splinter Cell Conviction Thread!

Since 6973 Days

I think you answered your own question. Metal Gear is as distinctly Playstation as Splinter Cell is Xbox, despite meddling with Gamecube and Xbox both in one shape or another. There's a connection for Xbox consumers to Sam Fisher from his early endeavours, and we feel like we *know* him. You can argue the merits of Metal Gear vs the Splinter Cell games for a long, long time, but at the end of the day there's a bond between Playstation owners and Solid Snake aswell. Perhaps to a greater extent thanks to the much more extravagant stories and a more emphasised characterization of its protagonist. Though Pandora Tomorrow took great strides towards giving Sam a real, tangible personality, it was really just an accumulated experience with all games that gave him a distinct role as simply the guy who gets things done.

But I digress, my point is that Conviction is very much a reboot of sorts. It's not a reboot from a character thread standpoint, because it's all still fairly connected, but Ubi likes to shake things up - lose a few fans and gain some more - now and then to avoid stagnation. Prince of Persia did it, Far Cry did it, Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six.. all did so and alienated a few fans only to take a new grapple on a slightly different audience. Conviction I think will appeal to the audience that found past splinter cells a little too stuffy and are looking for more of a blockbuster type stealth deal.. Much like how Metal Gear distinguishes itself from other stealth games.

Of course as a gaming liberal and a champion of flowers and peace and clouds with smiles on them, I have a naive perspective here but I really saw the opportunity for Sam Fisher to become a universally loved character and for Splinter Cell to get its deserved credit from an audience that got a bit shafted with kinda horrible ports.

But alas, between this exclusivity and Kojima "making the REAL metal gear for playstation" I suppose it's a divide that will never close.

I will be struck personally though because one of my best friends is a staunch Playstation only supporter, and liking Conviction is now a notion incompatible with his internal OS. :)

In reply to

I think you answered your own question. Metal Gear is as distinctly Playstation as Splinter Cell is Xbox, despite meddling with Gamecube and Xbox both in one shape or another. There's a connection for Xbox consumers to Sam Fisher from his early endeavours, and we feel like we *know* him. You can argue the merits of Metal Gear vs the Splinter Cell games for a long, long time, but at the end of the day there's a bond between Playstation owners and Solid Snake aswell. Perhaps to a greater extent thanks to the much more extravagant stories and a more emphasised characterization of its protagonist. Though Pandora Tomorrow took great strides towards giving Sam a real, tangible personality, it was really just an accumulated experience with all games that gave him a distinct role as simply the guy who gets things done.

But I digress, my point is that Conviction is very much a reboot of sorts. It's not a reboot from a character thread standpoint, because it's all still fairly connected, but Ubi likes to shake things up - lose a few fans and gain some more - now and then to avoid stagnation. Prince of Persia did it, Far Cry did it, Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six.. all did so and alienated a few fans only to take a new grapple on a slightly different audience. Conviction I think will appeal to the audience that found past splinter cells a little too stuffy and are looking for more of a blockbuster type stealth deal.. Much like how Metal Gear distinguishes itself from other stealth games.

Of course as a gaming liberal and a champion of flowers and peace and clouds with smiles on them, I have a naive perspective here but I really saw the opportunity for Sam Fisher to become a universally loved character and for Splinter Cell to get its deserved credit from an audience that got a bit shafted with kinda horrible ports.

But alas, between this exclusivity and Kojima "making the REAL metal gear for playstation" I suppose it's a divide that will never close.

I will be struck personally though because one of my best friends is a staunch Playstation only supporter, and liking Conviction is now a notion incompatible with his internal OS. :)

http://modeseven.blogspot.com | Dominic and Simon - dyanamic games blog duo!

Since 6880 Days

I think the Splinter Cell name became synonimous with Xbox due to MP. That's where the franchise made a breakthrough especially with Chaos Theory. In fact, weren't the MP modes only available on the Xbox version ? I cant remember.

In reply to

Since 6880 Days

OFF topic, speakig of Ubi games sales figures. They just announced Assassins Creed sold 8 Million copies!!!! amazing for a new franchise.

In reply to

Since 6973 Days

Yeah, they're giving 2 a massive budget apparently. Ubi have consistently shown that they know how to step up when they need to, so I think AC2 is gonna be awesome. :)

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http://modeseven.blogspot.com | Dominic and Simon - dyanamic games blog duo!

Since 6880 Days

Posted by SimonM7

Yeah, they're giving 2 a massive budget apparently. Ubi have consistently shown that they know how to step up when they need to, so I think AC2 is gonna be awesome. :)

Well there you go Simon, a Game sells well ---> sequel is more than just "less ambitious" and gets a bigger budget ;)

In reply to

Since 6973 Days

Oh I never thought Assassin's Creed wasn't ambitious. Conviction though, especially in AC's shadow, didn't get anywhere near the same exposure or confidence from Ubi at the time, despite shooting for a release alongside Altair's shenanigans.

In reply to

http://modeseven.blogspot.com | Dominic and Simon - dyanamic games blog duo!

dcdelgado

Since 6810 Days

SC5 will kick all kinds of ass, thats for sure.

In reply to

** Yes We CAN!! **

Kaz Hirai - Sony

"We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do" LOLOLOLOL!!

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/news/news-2955-...

Since 6880 Days

Posted by SimonM7

Oh I never thought Assassin's Creed wasn't ambitious. Conviction though, especially in AC's shadow, didn't get anywhere near the same exposure or confidence from Ubi at the time, despite shooting for a release alongside Altair's shenanigans.

you're right about that but I was referring to the discussion about Conviction not being as ambitious therefore not warranting the Multi Plat treatment. Anyway, I think we understand each other now.

I am so glad they trashed that conviction set up. The demo they showed raised quite a few Eyebrows and not for a good reason.

In reply to

BLackHawkodst

Since 5836 Days

Yep the 360 version for sure, they mentioned they will be showing and giving more info on the MP version in the summer, so we should all find out then.

In reply to

Prepare To Drop!!

IamLegend

Since 5806 Days

Splinter Cell: Conviction Preview: Stealth and Combat Collide!

There are certain things that you see at E3 (or any trade show for that matter) that you are subjected to over and over again that after a while, you tend to get sick of. For me, that game was Splinter Cell: Conviction. This by no means is a slur against the title itself because it seems to be shaping up quite well, but having to sit through the same mission from a supposed sandbox title played the exact same way 3 times on 3 separate occasions (MS & EA Press Conference, and a developer walkthrough), things tends to get a little old ... and fast. Rather than discuss the walkthrough in detail, because chances are you’ll have seen it already, I’m going to focus on the new gameplay features and style, with Steve Masters, Lead Game Designer, on hand to answer some of the more awkward questions I threw at him.

Splinter Cell: Conviction features many new features; the first, and possibly the biggest of all, is the new “mark and execute” function that Masters noted they were building the whole game around. It allows Fisher to effectively mark targets before busting in and triggering the final execute command, which will initiate an automatic response from Fisher to take out those marked targets. This isn’t limited to just marking people either, as players can mark items like lights as well if they so wish. Masters noted that it’s meant to be used as a strategic tool and effectively places the “power of Sam Fisher in everyone’s hands.” First things first, this new mechanic cannot be used all the time and once an execute order is issued, in order to use it again, it must be recouped by performing a close combat takedown. The amount of “marks” you get as well depends on the weapon you’re using, with the shorter range weapons having more marks (the shotgun had 3 marks) than the longer ranged weapons (the assault rifle had 2); however they are currently balancing this, so it may change from now to the release. The first thing that ran through my mind was obviously, is this going to be too easy for Splinter Cell veterans? In my opinion, I think so, but Masters had this to say regarding that;

Masters admitted that the combat orientation “has changed the game quite dramatically” but on whether he thought it would still appeal to the long standing fans of the stealth series, Masters commented that they were “staying true to the roots.” Furthermore he noted that “you still have all the stealth tools and stealth options; you can bypass all the guys, create distractions and get through the other areas and completely stealth your way through the levels ... it’s difficult, but you can do it” Surely a clear indication that the series isn’t leaving its roots behind completely, it’s just broadening its horizons. Is this the new Ubisoft strategy, as we recently saw Prince of Persia go from a hardcore platformer to a relatively easy adventure game? Either way, the stealth is still there ... but now if you want to punch your way through, you’re more than welcome to, but to me, that doesn’t really seem very “Splinter Celly.”

Then of course there is the “last known position” mechanic, so when Sam enters darkness and his trackers lose sight of him, Sam’s last known position will be indicated by a grey silhouette so that he can effectively use that to play a game of cat and mouse with his prey. The AI did seem a little dense here in all honesty, but there is a good 6 months to straighten that out and tweak it to become a little more intelligent than just – “oh, I know, I’ll run into the dark after that armed assassin!”

In reply to

Splinter Cell: Conviction Preview: Stealth and Combat Collide!

[QUOTE]There are certain things that you see at E3 (or any trade show for that matter) that you are subjected to over and over again that after a while, you tend to get sick of. For me, that game was Splinter Cell: Conviction. This by no means is a slur against the title itself because it seems to be shaping up quite well, but having to sit through the same mission from a supposed sandbox title played the exact same way 3 times on 3 separate occasions (MS & EA Press Conference, and a developer walkthrough), things tends to get a little old ... and fast. Rather than discuss the walkthrough in detail, because chances are you’ll have seen it already, I’m going to focus on the new gameplay features and style, with Steve Masters, Lead Game Designer, on hand to answer some of the more awkward questions I threw at him.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://www.xbox360achievements.org/images/screenshots/369/med_5.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE]Splinter Cell: Conviction features many new features; the first, and possibly the biggest of all, is the new “mark and execute” function that Masters noted they were building the whole game around. It allows Fisher to effectively mark targets before busting in and triggering the final execute command, which will initiate an automatic response from Fisher to take out those marked targets. This isn’t limited to just marking people either, as players can mark items like lights as well if they so wish. Masters noted that it’s meant to be used as a strategic tool and effectively places the “power of Sam Fisher in everyone’s hands.” First things first, this new mechanic cannot be used all the time and once an execute order is issued, in order to use it again, it must be recouped by performing a close combat takedown. The amount of “marks” you get as well depends on the weapon you’re using, with the shorter range weapons having more marks (the shotgun had 3 marks) than the longer ranged weapons (the assault rifle had 2); however they are currently balancing this, so it may change from now to the release. The first thing that ran through my mind was obviously, is this going to be too easy for Splinter Cell veterans? In my opinion, I think so, but Masters had this to say regarding that;[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Masters admitted that the combat orientation “has changed the game quite dramatically” but on whether he thought it would still appeal to the long standing fans of the stealth series, Masters commented that they were “staying true to the roots.” Furthermore he noted that “you still have all the stealth tools and stealth options; you can bypass all the guys, create distractions and get through the other areas and completely stealth your way through the levels ... it’s difficult, but you can do it” Surely a clear indication that the series isn’t leaving its roots behind completely, it’s just broadening its horizons. Is this the new Ubisoft strategy, as we recently saw Prince of Persia go from a hardcore platformer to a relatively easy adventure game? Either way, the stealth is still there ... but now if you want to punch your way through, you’re more than welcome to, but to me, that doesn’t really seem very “Splinter Celly.”[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://www.xbox360achievements.org/images/screenshots/369/med_2.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE]Then of course there is the “last known position” mechanic, so when Sam enters darkness and his trackers lose sight of him, Sam’s last known position will be indicated by a grey silhouette so that he can effectively use that to play a game of cat and mouse with his prey. The AI did seem a little dense here in all honesty, but there is a good 6 months to straighten that out and tweak it to become a little more intelligent than just – “oh, I know, I’ll run into the dark after that armed assassin!”[/QUOTE]

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/news/news-2955-E3-2009--Splinter-Cell--Conviction-Preview--When-Stealth-and-Combat-Collide.html

Since 6354 Days

i dont quite get the point of the "last known position" we've seen that in a lot of games without the need to use a blatantly obvious, atmosphere killing white figure in the game world. he may as well deploy an inflatable fisher it looks so stupid.

i've come to accept the auto aim shooting and faster pace, in fact i think it will benefit the series in the long run, but for such a cinematic looking game, it seems weird to have such an obvious "thing" in the environment. why cant the enemies just shoot and search in that direction, why do we need the silhouette at all?

In reply to

Optimusv2

Since 6842 Days

The silhouette looks amazing and I completely support it being in there.

If done incorrectly it could've destroyed the atmosphere, but I honestly think it helps the atmosphere the way they've done it. I mean look what they are doing with their story telling mechanic they got going on by displaying your objectives right there in the game world as opposed to having some text show on the bottom or top of the screen telling you what you have to do next.

The good thing about the silhouette is that it helps the player perform in a more stealth like and professional manner because you KNOW that's where you were last spotted. It's an incredibly well done mechanic they've done there. If it weren't there the player would have no idea that the enemy still believes he is in that location, which would make pulling off something cool and stealthy more difficult.

In reply to

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic g

Since 6354 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

The silhouette looks amazing and I completely support it being in there.

If done incorrectly it could've destroyed the atmosphere, but I honestly think it helps the atmosphere the way they've done it. I mean look what they are doing with their story telling mechanic they got going on by displaying your objectives right there in the game world as opposed to having some text show on the bottom or top of the screen telling you what you have to do next.

The good thing about the silhouette is that it helps the player perform in a more stealth like and professional manner because you KNOW that's where you were last spotted. It's an incredibly well done mechanic they've done there. If it weren't there the player would have no idea that the enemy still believes he is in that location, which would make pulling off something cool and stealthy more difficult.

exactly, the projected objectives seem thought out and considered, and help increase the cinematic flair the game has, seeing a blow up doll of fisher pop out of no-where kills that atmopshere for me. it looks rediculous. especially when the exact same mechanic existed and worked perfectly in chaos theory and double agent without the need for some obtrusive ghostly apparition.

i absolutely hate it...and it's the only thing hurting what is otherwise an incredibly polished and cinematic looking title.

In reply to

[quote=Optimusv2]The silhouette looks amazing and I completely support it being in there.

If done incorrectly it could've destroyed the atmosphere, but I honestly think it helps the atmosphere the way they've done it. I mean look what they are doing with their story telling mechanic they got going on by displaying your objectives right there in the game world as opposed to having some text show on the bottom or top of the screen telling you what you have to do next.

The good thing about the silhouette is that it helps the player perform in a more stealth like and professional manner because you KNOW that's where you were last spotted. It's an incredibly well done mechanic they've done there. If it weren't there the player would have no idea that the enemy still believes he is in that location, which would make pulling off something cool and stealthy more difficult.[/quote]

exactly, the projected objectives seem thought out and considered, and help increase the cinematic flair the game has, seeing a blow up doll of fisher pop out of no-where kills that atmopshere for me. it looks rediculous. especially when the exact same mechanic existed and worked perfectly in chaos theory and double agent without the need for some obtrusive ghostly apparition.

i absolutely hate it...and it's the only thing hurting what is otherwise an incredibly polished and cinematic looking title.

Optimusv2

Since 6842 Days

We'll have to agree to disagree on the inclusion of that feature then as I think it looks pretty cool :)

In reply to

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic g

Since 6973 Days

I think showing it is a good idea, but the visual cue is a bit ham fisted. They could give you a more subtle indication of where guards were focused.

In reply to

http://modeseven.blogspot.com | Dominic and Simon - dyanamic games blog duo!

Ronsauce

Since 6935 Days

I'm all for the silhouette. Sometimes you just can't be certain that after they've initially spotted you, they've been able to keep tabs on you. It was frustrating running away and hiding only to have them beeline to my exact location. Knowing that they had possibly seen me at certain points would have been handy. Plus I mean, to me it's no worse than punctuation floating above enemies' heads.

i've come to accept the auto aim shooting

You mean the mark/execute ability that you earn but are still able to ignore in favour of aiming manually?

I think showing it is a good idea, but the visual cue is a bit ham fisted. They could give you a more subtle indication of where guards were focused.

Fair enough.

In reply to

"If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate." - Zapp Brannigan

Since 6354 Days

Posted by SimonM7

I think showing it is a good idea, but the visual cue is a bit ham fisted. They could give you a more subtle indication of where guards were focused.

yeah. i'd rather it just not be there, but a less obtrusive variant would be better i guess. but i had no issues doing the same thing in chaos theory seeing as the guards would acutally be LOOKING in the direction you used to be, alowing you to sweep behind them and snap their neck...it just means you have to observe whats doing on around you more often. but thats good imo. in typical ubisoft fashion, they're making things simple to a point of stupidity. i dont need my hand holding, i can do it myself. hopefully i can turn the damn thing off.

In reply to

dcdelgado

Since 6810 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

The silhouette looks amazing and I completely support it being in there.

If done incorrectly it could've destroyed the atmosphere, but I honestly think it helps the atmosphere the way they've done it. I mean look what they are doing with their story telling mechanic they got going on by displaying your objectives right there in the game world as opposed to having some text show on the bottom or top of the screen telling you what you have to do next.

The good thing about the silhouette is that it helps the player perform in a more stealth like and professional manner because you KNOW that's where you were last spotted. It's an incredibly well done mechanic they've done there. If it weren't there the player would have no idea that the enemy still believes he is in that location, which would make pulling off something cool and stealthy more difficult.

+1 it looks so cool and adds to the whole experience.

In reply to

** Yes We CAN!! **

Kaz Hirai - Sony

"We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do" LOLOLOLOL!!

Since 6973 Days

@ Korn

Well, they always had this feature in, like you say, but it's clear that it wasn't obvious enough for a lot of people. I mean I notice stuff in games because I'm pretty creative and curious and kinda look for how things work.. which is probably why I like a lot of games that get on other people's tits. Truth is though that a lot of gameplay elements ARE lost on people, and that's not because those people are stupid or anything, it's just that they don't presume that there are things in a game that don't actually present themselves.

I think the reason people are put off by stealth and Splinter Cell is often that lack of overview and grasp of what is actually going on. Being shot dead and barely realising why. I think the more people can get involved with the mechanics the better, and this is a nice way to bring this as a feature into the light. Sure, having the option to turn it off can't hurt I guess.

It really does look jarring and awkward that the silhouette is such a solid representation of Sam. I hope they figure out some way to make it less plasticy and out of place.

In reply to

@ Korn

Well, they always had this feature in, like you say, but it's clear that it wasn't obvious enough for a lot of people. I mean I notice stuff in games because I'm pretty creative and curious and kinda look for how things work.. which is probably why I like a lot of games that get on other people's tits. Truth is though that a lot of gameplay elements ARE lost on people, and that's not because those people are stupid or anything, it's just that they don't presume that there are things in a game that don't actually present themselves.

I think the reason people are put off by stealth and Splinter Cell is often that lack of overview and grasp of what is actually going on. Being shot dead and barely realising why. I think the more people can get involved with the mechanics the better, and this is a nice way to bring this as a feature into the light. Sure, having the option to turn it off can't hurt I guess.

It really does look jarring and awkward that the silhouette is such a solid representation of Sam. I hope they figure out some way to make it less plasticy and out of place.

http://modeseven.blogspot.com | Dominic and Simon - dyanamic games blog duo!

Since 6354 Days

Posted by SimonM7

@ Korn

Well, they always had this feature in, like you say, but it's clear that it wasn't obvious enough for a lot of people. I mean I notice stuff in games because I'm pretty creative and curious and kinda look for how things work.. which is probably why I like a lot of games that get on other people's tits. Truth is though that a lot of gameplay elements ARE lost on people, and that's not because those people are stupid or anything, it's just that they don't presume that there are things in a game that don't actually present themselves.

I think the reason people are put off by stealth and Splinter Cell is often that lack of overview and grasp of what is actually going on. Being shot dead and barely realising why. I think the more people can get involved with the mechanics the better, and this is a nice way to bring this as a feature into the light. Sure, having the option to turn it off can't hurt I guess.

It really does look jarring and awkward that the silhouette is such a solid representation of Sam. I hope they figure out some way to make it less plasticy and out of place.

yeah, i think if it was projected like the objectives, bending and distorting depending on the surface it was projected onto, that would look fine. it's too in your face atm, and it just appears out of no-where. it's almost as atmosphere killing as pulling a cardboard box out of thin air in MGS,.

it's like, sure, i appreciate them trying to help the player understand basic underlying mechanics that have been in the series since chaos theory, but i'd also appreciate it if it was a little more subtle then a inflatable pop-up clown.

In reply to

[quote=SimonM7]@ Korn

Well, they always had this feature in, like you say, but it's clear that it wasn't obvious enough for a lot of people. I mean I notice stuff in games because I'm pretty creative and curious and kinda look for how things work.. which is probably why I like a lot of games that get on other people's tits. Truth is though that a lot of gameplay elements ARE lost on people, and that's not because those people are stupid or anything, it's just that they don't presume that there are things in a game that don't actually present themselves.

I think the reason people are put off by stealth and Splinter Cell is often that lack of overview and grasp of what is actually going on. Being shot dead and barely realising why. I think the more people can get involved with the mechanics the better, and this is a nice way to bring this as a feature into the light. Sure, having the option to turn it off can't hurt I guess.

It really does look jarring and awkward that the silhouette is such a solid representation of Sam. I hope they figure out some way to make it less plasticy and out of place.[/quote]

yeah, i think if it was projected like the objectives, bending and distorting depending on the surface it was projected onto, that would look fine. it's too in your face atm, and it just appears out of no-where. it's almost as atmosphere killing as pulling a cardboard box out of thin air in MGS,.

it's like, sure, i appreciate them trying to help the player understand basic underlying mechanics that have been in the series since chaos theory, but i'd also appreciate it if it was a little more subtle then a inflatable pop-up clown.