As long as it plays amazingly right ? :D

Yeah, but I know it could look MUCH better.........They believed it at one time even, they ran into problems and compromised big time to release "on time". If I see a single drop in framerate I'll be very disappointed though, that would be unacceptable IMO. And well, part of why I race is to watch my replays, that's very important to me, so that's why I complain, I know many don't care, I do.

But the sound is amazing (perhaps the game's best technical feature), livery editor is much improved, multiplayer has lots more options, the overall user interface looks way better, and everyone who has the preview build says the physics/gameplay is very improved. I can't complain that much in the gameplay side of things. Only big problem to me is the amount of tracks.

I'm hoping they have a lot more body kits though, a lot more rims to choose from too.

Pretty much yea they didn't totally deliver visually, but the way I see it is they have right now one of the most incredible foundations for a next gen sim racer out there and next time around they'll be able to do a lot of the things they tried to do in this game more efficiently and we should be in for quite a treat.

What I'm most pleased about is regardless of how good or bad forza 2 looks I'll be having a blast playing the game by myself and with all the other people that will own it. It may not look like a bid budget game to most, but it sure as hell will play like one and ultimately thats the most improtant thing even if I'd like to have both :)

Honestly my biggest complaint is those obnoxious white lines all over everything it really annoys me. That like isn't even the result of 2XAA thats a bonified graphical glitch. PGR3 with its 2XAA doesn't even look like that.

I agreed with everything you said up until acquire BC to develop rendering technology for all their racing titles.

Forza 2 has amazing gameplay from what everyone is reporting. They didn't deliver a game as great graphically as everyone expected, but they excelled in ALL other areas. Incredible sounds, amazing online options, awesome customization, cool features like auction house, awesome damage, Extremely good physics model that applies to all 8 cars on track even the computer controlled ones not just you, 60FPS.

I say let turn10 continue to decide every aspect of their game. I remember a dev saying it isn't about achieveing new or more graphical effects as you gain experience on a console its about learning to do current things more efficiently which in essence make way for the improvements people say they see. Dirt has horrid gameplay and the graphics don't excuse it (I know you aren't saying that they do) PGR3/PGR4 aren't sims like Forza 2 and I know turn 10 could've done a better job with the graphics or if they went 30fps like pgr games they could've had a better looking game, but I think what Turn 10 has managed to accomplish with forza 2 is MUCH MORE important than it looking amazing. From what we know right now there is no question turn 10 has THE best groundwork for an incredibly realistic driving game so far this generationi. Now in future titles its their job to build around that and I think they'll do a great job of that. I think turn 10 made a choice that they wanted to nail the gruntwork for gameplay at any cost with this iteration and then continue to build on it in their next title. Its obvious where most of the work in this game went.

I'm going to enjoy forza 2, but I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt in regards to graphics until I see what Forza 3 looks like. I think their going to keep a lot of the gameplay, physics work around for Forza 3 then continue to tune things, but put a lot more emphasis on the visuals next time around (perhaps achieving things they promised for the first game)

I agree with you the graphics should be better for a first party title, but I think they atleast had enough respect or common sense to nail the most crucial part of the game the reason we are interested in it in the first place. Yea we hoped for better graphics as we'd like to have our cake and eat it too, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until next time. This time however I wont take their word on anything they say I'll judge based on what I see. They promise graphical features I'll wait until I see them to be excited.

Sorry, but everybody was expecting much better graphics, because T10 did exactly promisse that since the annoucement of it's game. Not just that, they've hyped the game over months just with graphically stuff they would implement and make the game look stunning. I have to commit, the cars looks great, but all the environments looks horrible to me. They've just lied about mostly everything. If they had announced the game as a sim without all that lies about graphics nobody would complain about. The point is when PGR3 was released it wasn't that big deal everybody had expected from a nextgen console. But now, 1.5 years after the launch, there is still no racer with better overall graphics than a launch game and now everybody is noticing how good PGR3 has always looked. When it comes to environment graphics PGR3 is still miles ahead of FM2.

and your point is...?

the point is poeple..the game is done , dusted, about to go gold
bitch all you want it wont change a damn thing,
if you want the game your going to buy it...if you dont you wont
the ones that want the game are not suddenly gonna go " damn you turn 10 it doesnt look "real" im not going to buy your game...im gonna still keep playing pgr3 that handles like a sack o cack, but looks purdy"

do you play games for how they look??? or how they play???? because i thought that gameplay was the MOST important thing about a game, eye candy is a bonus

The point is that i am going to try out the demo before i will buy the game. I will not buy the game if it doesn't meet my expectations in even some area. It's not only the graphics that is below expectations, many other content has been cut. But the game still comes at the same high price.Yes, how they look is very important to me. If it's not important to you why posting on a 360 forum? Just buy a PS2/XBOX1 and be happy, there are lots of games with great gameplay. And in regards to the gameplay, everybody was kidding about NFS and all the stuff to pimp your car, but now all these pimp stuff is exactly one of the main features of FM2.

dont be a moron...i post on a 360 site because i own a 360.. and consider my self a gamer
and i own a ps2/xbox and a gamecube
what your saying is that i sould only own a 360 if all i care about gfx?, get real...the term next gen doesnt just apply to eyecandy you know.

if thats all you care about buy a ps3 and play gthd (derogatory comments work bothways you know)

and if you know anything about the forza "pimping" cars and nfs pimping cars are worlds apart from each other and in forza 2 its not the "main" feature, something tells me youve not played forza 1 ???

Then i really ask myself why the industry (Microsoft/Sony) want's everybody to play on an HDTV. I didn't buy an 42 inch HDTV to see all those horrible jaggies or bad assets from FM1. And that's exactly the point. Most people really hard complain about the jaggies of PGR3 and after 1.5 years and all that promisses (4xAA) they just can't deliver the simplest customers requirements.The auction house and all that pimp stuff is "one" of the highly praised main features of FM2!

Thank you.... It appears all that people care about nowadays is pretty graphics and nothing else. Like the actual game. You believe there are people out there even considering Dirt??? Why exactly? ONLY CAUSE IT HAS NICE GRAPHICS (LOL) No offense to anyone looking forward to buying Dirt, but last I checked I don't buy games to look at them then be bored out of my mind when they suck. What else does it have? Oh yea nice bending and deformation of the cars how long before that gets old? I buy games to have fun with them.

Milhouse everyone wants better graphics, but whats done is done. Forza Motorsport 2 is without a doubt the best racing sim of the next generation. If you are suddenly so disappointed with it don't buy it. Apparently all the talk about how amazing the game's handling is and how unique each car feels or how incredible the sounds are don't register with you so if graphics are so important in your opinion and you can't seem to get around the fact that we already know forza 2 wont be some graphical benchmark then it might not be the game for you.

Yes we already knew content was cut from the game milhouse accept it and move on the content wont magically come back so I don't see it as a valid excuse anymore since we should've accept awhile back what was taken out. When you eventually play a demo and are likely impressed with the gameplay itself and the sounds if the graphics aren't up to your standards you just wont buy it?

well if its HIGHLY praised, then that tells you is so far removed from the crappy "pimp my ride" nonsence from the likes of NFS, yea you can add body kits to your car in forza , but they have an effect on how the car reacts ie downforce and drag...(not to just make your car purdy)

im sat watcing the british touring car championship on tv, and those cars have body kits and lowprofile tyres and and wide alloys for a reason.

insdead if bitching/nitpicking about what was cut from forza....look at what forza does, because ir you can find me another game on consoles that goes as deep and has the kinda car physics, and the amount of car "tweeks" both cosmetic..and under the hood and looks as good as forza2 i will give you my 360 and my 42" plazma

and i didnt by a hd tv for my 360...i bought my tv 3 years ago...when i was playing ps2 and xbox
if you wanna do what the "industry" tells you to do and by a big assed tv then thatsyour fault for being easily led...just dont bitch when somthing doesnt meet your expectations, if anyone REALY believed what turn 10 said at the start of forza 2 development are either very gullible, or have led rather sheltered gaming lives
content almost always gets dropped from games to get them out the door , or do you want games to have 5 year plus development cycles.

shit got dropped from PGR3...shit got dropped from GT4
shit happens, get over it

with DLC we will get the tracks that were dropped, and different game modes

people that have played F2 have said that its the most remarkable sim created the handeling is spot on, the FF is fantastic.

Oh yeah, now it's the fault of the customers that the game will be judged on what was promissed.And you will be charged for something that should be included in the game.

no, the game will be judged on its own merits...and so far people are saying its damn good.
just seems like you (and a small minority) will judge it on what was promised

and for bieng charged for DLC...i dont mind , if its quallity, lke a brand new race way and its only a couple of quid i dont mind paying at all....besides i dont have to buy it do i ?

I really believe Turn 10 are not the guys to go with when talking graphics.

To me, that was very clear last gen when the the big three were on the console, taking advantage of it some way or another.

Forza:
Looked great, some impressive road textures.
Ok car models with no interior showing at all.
Passable damage.
Running at 30fps but reflections looked like going at 20fps.
Great physics no doubt.
Night racing, no weather effects.


of note are the road textures, I couldn't find better, but just know they look GOOD

PGR2:
Looked really great, impressive car models and reflections.
Minimal damage.
Running at 30fps, with reflections looking great.
Car models had a great interior for its time, the best.
Weather effects and night racing.
Ok physics.


Of note on the shot is the really nice interior WITH shadowing.

Rallisport Challenege 2:
The best looking racer last gen, easily.
Unbelievable lighting (check night racing in this game, your jaw might drop even today)
Unbelievable weather effects. Storms looked like storms, really. This combined with rain look simply jawdropping.
Cars get dirty as they go.
The best car models last gen.
Amazing attention to detail, to the point of moving calipers.
Best damage modeling last gen. Real damage modeling that is.
60 FPS with equally smooth reflections.
Awesome physics.
Incredibly dense foliage, great looking at that.
Damageable environment (light though, like fences bending, etc)
3D moving spectators
Modeled interior, modeled engine, modeled EVERYTHING.
Better looking grass than that in Forza 2 to be honest.
Superbly detailed 8 minute+ tracks that made use of the HDD.


of note is everything in this game

More of that awesome lighting;


Here, the 3d grass is pretty much what we see in FM2;


In-car camera


Basically, I think what DICE did with RSC2 is unbelievable. They are the ones to go when talking graphics. Don't cite physics either, because even if I have no real knowledge, I believe this game did as much as Forza in terms of physics, just in other ways. I've seen the most impressive car roll overs in any game, damage (which made use of physics), and had pretty believable car movement, it was simply forgiving (to a point).

If you don't agree, I find it hard to believe you played the game to be honest.

Well grift to be honest what are the chances of there being many sim racers that outdo Forza Motorsport 2 on consoles these days? Gran Turismo is the only possible competition I really see as I don't know of any other pure sims and the ones I do know of they are badly done and I'm willing to bet even if that game doesn't end up matching the amazing vehicle handling, customization, damage, online options that forza 2 has I'm sure quite a few here will still say its better than forza 2 as long as it has better graphics (which it probably will as PD has never failed to impress me graphically)

PGR4 isn't a sim game, Burnout aren't sims, I can't think of any other potential racing simulations out there that pose a threat to Forza besides Gran Turismo so until something shows up to dethrone Forza 2 it will of course be the best. I just don't see any other dev other than Polyphony digital making something that can compare with forza 2 and in my mind I'm sure all Polyphony will have to do is produce amazing graphics with acceptable next gen car handling and it'll be seen as mopping the floor with forza 2 by the majority.

If I was putting too large an emphasis on the graphical aspect of games this gen I wouldn't be as happy to own my 360 and PS3 as I am now. Coming in graphics may have been my biggest point of interest, but now I know better and expect much more than just great graphics. Maybe Ken wasn't so crazy afterall when he said the PS3 isn't 3D it's 4D. He may have chosen a bad way of getting the message across, but the message I think is clear its more than just about improved 3D graphics we now have the power to push other aspects of gaming for a more complete experience. Example :: What Ubisoft is doing with Assassin's Creed and Splinter Cell Conviction. I want great looking games, but not at the expense of other more important things. Maybe turn10 isn't capable of better graphics? Its possible, but I'm glad in dropping the ball visually they didn't drop the ball on what was most important. If Forza 2 had incredible graphics and wasn't the beast it is during gameplay I and many other people probably wouldn't feel any regrets whatsoever passing on the game.

Now let me ask a question I'm sure they'll get more out of the 360 next time, but this time around would people have preferred Turn 10 stick with 60 physics updates per second and just make the graphics more amazing for the sake of being a visual benchmark for the 360? All the physics updates are what makes each car in the game feel so unique as according to what blim said each time he tries a new car its as if he's playing a new game. The naruto game for example its good that I like how it looks, but if the game itself is great and fun to play I wont care how good or bad the graphics for that game end up looking and I think the same for forza 2. I wont be buying PGR4 for its awesome graphics I'll be buying it cause I expect it to be fun all that fancy rain and other fancy stuff wont mean a thing if it doesn't play well.

Call me crazy, but I think Assassin's Creed, Splinter Cell Conviction, GTA4 are the all around most technically impressive games so far this generation moreso than the likes of Gears of War, Fight Night Round 3 and a lot of other games and the biggest reason for that isn't due to the graphics its that they appear to be taking advantage of the extra power of these consoles to improve the all around experience. We may be closing in on diminishing returns in terms of great graphics, but there is a lot that hasn't been attempted with videogames and I'm glad to see some devs stepping up to do things we only dreamed of. I haven't played it myself yet, but from what I've been hearing about the handling turn10 appears to have done that with the gameplay in forza 2 the cars may actually feel as unique and real a they do in real life. Perhaps not perfect, but the closest we've come on consoles. Just because forza 2 is the only game to have done it this so far doesn't at all make it any less impressive or meaningful because we know the chances of many other games matching it are slim.

Forza 2 has great graphics, considering 60fps and splitscreen. Motorstorm and Dirt have obviously much better graphics, but they're 30fps with no splitscreen. My biggest concern is that the game has only 12 tracks and unless they confirm more will be available through Marketplace I won't buy the game. Dirt has 55 tracks.

Che said at EGM LIve where he was interviewed that FM3 would take longer to make than FM2, so I expect FM3 to be released at the end of 2009 at earliest - I wonder how much they'll push the hardware next time around (now they have 1,5+ years of working with 360, when FM3 is released they'll have 4+ years with 360 to play around...).

I think turn10 was stressed for time despite the fact that they delayed the game. Come to think of it I don't really believe the game was delayed Microsoft simply claimed the game would come this year in order to get more people to hop on the 360 bandwagon as like a spur of the moment type thing.

I think they also knew full well too human and mass effect wouldn't make 2006. It has 12 environments not 12 tracks. Dirt has no splitscreen? Thats a surprise I thought it had it.

More than a pure graphics upgrade for FM3, I expect weather effects and night racing. Also make races feel more like races with an animated pit crew and other little things that make a huge difference.

I mean, this time around they gave us the pathetic excuse that they wouldn't be doing rain/wet tracks because it would take a lot of time to develop their tire model to the point of perfection they love. That is as bad of a excuse as Polyphony's excuse of not having damage because they want it to perfection, we know those are stupid, hyprocritical excuses.

It's 12 tracks optimus. I don't feel like adding a couple of turns makes another track, it's the same thing. Let's not even talk about reversing the tracks because well........ugh, that's the oldest and cheapest way to get nice numbers on the back of the box.

Well I don't know how much of an excuse the tire thing is they apparently did A LOT of work on those tires =P

On a serious note I suspect Forza 3 will be the game everyone was expecting visually with Forza 3. I definitely don't think forza 2's graphics are bad, but I will admit they aren't as good as I expected them to be and the only reason i'm not so mad is because of how great the gameplay appears to have turned out. When I have my steering wheel and I'm playing that thing feeling the rumble and force feedback and the feeling of losing control of the car I'll be in car heaven :D

I'll have on the back of my car "If you can read this it means you're losing" haha.

http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/games/c/colinmcraedirt/
It has only "1 player" listed in offline features.We already know PR for this game is far from perfect...

It would mean adding/changing 2 (or so) parameters and more gameplay balancing. Not saying it's easy, but I don't believe it would mean so much more additional work it would force them to basically replace tire system.My thoughts exatly.

Ok its pretty obvious you dont have a clue about car physics if you think it was as good those found in forza. Yes the graphics were pretty awesome for back then but is that really suprising when...

1)Other cars on the road have almost ZERO A.I.
2)Relections on cars ONLY reflects trees and nothing else
3)Theres Quite alot of pop in
4)Theres Only 4 cars in a race Vs 8 cars in forza
5)When theres more than one car on the screens, aliasing goes crazy

I think rallisport 2 looked great but definately didnt look as good as forza, pgr2 or GT4 imo.

Forza Motorsport:
http://uk.media.xbox.ign.com/media/682/682857/vid_...

Rallysport 2:
http://uk.media.xbox.ign.com/media/482/482216/vid_...