I dont know what's going on with that Audi S4 and it does indeed look terrible but to say that old car models are simply just being imported from FM2 is a bit silly when you consider the fact that all cars now feature interiors and every car in the screens below are all returning models....


@Optimus - Three cars in focus :)

Hehe Jin, it's just me taking a purposely exaggerated approach to whatever downsides there may be to Forza 3 so that when I eventually get my hands on it, my expectations are surpassed.


Check out that gameplay vid, some awesome damage gameplay, and it appears to me that they changed the in car view in order to allow better framerate. Che said that wasn't the case, but I'm not buying it because if that were true, they would include both point of views.

Hopefully they sort it out for Forza 4 as I'd love to see more of the awesome interiors. Then again, the new view they have now seems much better for gameplay purposes.

I've seen that gameplay vid before, it looks great!I'm not sure what you mean :s

Well I think all FM2 car models were well below the standard set by other games, so I really didn't pay attention at which looked less ugly. Now it's different though. By the way, car models are often outsourced to different people, not necessarily teams within the company. It can be anyone, anywhere, but yeah, they ultimately have the say on what goes in. Still, the thing is almost looks like some of them are imports from FM2, that's a huge deal because.........do I have to explain? It's like they modeled the cockpit and said "done, next".

@Optimus, the damage in FM3 seems to be the exact same thing from FM2......not really a bad thing, it was pretty good, but I don't see how I could consider that impressive :(

This is what I meanStraight from Che. I don't buy that it had nothing to do with framerate though, or else they'd give us the option of using the other views.

This cockpit view no longer exists in Forza 3. It's now the more pushed in view that we are seeing in the new gameplay videos.



Yea Lebato, the damage thus far appears to be exactly the same, but due to the improved visuals, it just looks that much more visually pleasing. The cars look great roughed up.

I see your point but this sort of thing happens in every racing that has a relatively large car list, GT1/2/3/4/5p,FM1/2,PGR1/2/3 all did the same. Each game had a handful of cars that looked nowhere near as good as the rest.

@Optimus - I see what you mean, but i have to agree with Che on this, the FOV in that screen you posted shows way too much cockpit, would be awful for driving, imagine having that limited FOV in real life, its like driving on the back seats lol! However, i do think it had something to do with framerate as the side mirror is no longer visible!! It needs to be somewhere in between.

2:15 into that gameplay vid, you see the new cockpit view for the Audi R8, or at least I think it's the Audi R8.

Hopefully, you can still free look :)

Where did you get that quote from Che Optimus? Did you PM him?

And yeah, it's ridiculous that he says that. Options, options, options. Why would they take away the option? There's no other reason other than performance, playability my ass, let us decide that.

Free look is still available.

Got the quote from his post on GAF.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1692513...

There's simply no way that this wasn't done due to performance issues. Why go through the trouble of modeling that awesome looking stuff and then push the view in without giving the option to zoom it back out? It's clearly due to performance issues. I'm not really surprised though, to be honest, as I always knew they were rushing to get this thing out. So I guess we'll just have to wait until Forza 4 for that pulled out view where you see so much of the interior.

I always had a feeling in my gut though that we wouldn't be getting this once we finally got our hands on Forza 3.

Yes Op, it's stupid actually. They better include an option if it wasn't performance, otherwise it's just more BS from T10/Che. They are going back to old habits now it seems.

I think he's right though, for actually playing the game that new perspective is better (doesn't look as cool, but whatever)
The hand doesn't move smoothly though, which is an eyesore.

Now I wonder if the freelook will actually rotate like that old footage, or just cut to an angle :/

Hopefully it moves smoothly. I don't think the close cam is *bad*, it worked really well in Ferrari 355 (it looks almost identical), but I think we should be given the choice.

Yeah, it shouldn't be all that difficult if what he is saying is true.
Surely the Forza community will be crying out for it.

The more camera options the better and game makers should know that by now.

He's talkin through his arse tbh, its done for performance and nothing more. Not that it looks BAD now, but its certainly far less impressive. GT5P has cockpit views exactly like the original F3 ones we saw, you get a huge amount of cockpit and a small amount of track, the thing is it gives a great immersive feeling, even the short gif above is great to look at. Now we get next to no side window view and no side mirror. They are rendering far far less than they were otherwise.
As we get closer and closer to release the more the wheels seem to be coming off this product, features are being cut back/dropped, it becomes more and more apparent that less effort has been spent than they are claiming and the whole thing is becoming more and more of a rush job. It's almost like a yearly sports game now where theyre pushing features off onto the next iteration and quite frankly, im more than willing to wait until then. Or just wait to GT5, PD have shown that they will reach their targets no matter how long it takes to give aproper experience.

This step back is quite frankly too far, its like theyre immitating a feature without actually doing it right. Pitiful.

well yeah, they can take forever to get the results they want, but I doubt we will wait for it.

Well i'd rather have a smooth cockpit view with less cockpit than more cockpit with framerate issues and screen screen tearing in GT5p. Either way, PD are still trying to reach thier very first target after 8 releases, which was to create a real driving simulator and they still havent achieved it, they are still imitating a feature without even coming close to actually doing it right, "Pitiful".

Im not saying they have to put everything in, but this is one feature that if youre doing, you have to do it right. Theres no point half assing it when so many other games have cockpit views and your main rival is leading the way. If it takes more time to get this right then they should do it, but i mean, theyve had since the last forza game to get it in and working, and here we are a couple of months before launch and theyre scaling it back.
This coupled with a few shots yesterday have really seeded some doubts as to the quality of the work and the amount of effort turn10 has actually put in to making this game. Forza 2 had the same alarm bells, all their shots were great looking then a few months before launch shots started to come out showing what it actually looked like with all the aliasing and artifacts etc. Nothing that extreme here yet, but because of past experience with T10 it may be the tip of the iceberg. I so don't want that to be true, im finding it hard enough this year to get excited for any console games.

What really amuses me is the way you use PD as an example of a dev team that really put the effort in. In 3 yrs, PD has managed to create a new skin for the cars and upscale GT4 tracks, Car Driving Physics, Car Collison Physics and A.I have all remained the same since GT3 back in 2001. PD seem to car about everything but the actually driving experience, its as though they are saying "Visuals first, then if we have time, lets update the physics".

Turn 10 will have had 2 releases since GT4 by the time GT5 is released and each game has been substantially improved in pretty much everyway over its predeccessor. But you know what, having said that, I'll rather wait for GT5 to play an 8yr old game with a new skin because i can see 5 extra inches of the dashboard and I like screen tearing and an instable framerate when driving.

They put effort in to create a visual style, they may use 2D trees etc, but the lighting model and car models and all the little visual touches are there to give it a look that is so impressive, and at the end of the day, thats what these screenshots are for, impressing us visually. GT may have sub standard tracks, but because the lighting model is so much better it feels more natural and they can get away with shortcuts a hell of a lot easier when they use them. They also create an atmosphere to the tracks, spectators that are animated, flash bulbs going off, air horns going off. All minor details but they create an atmosphere. I have been critical of the driving physics and collision physics in the past, im still not sure if they will be present in 5.

Forza only has 8 cars on track at any one time, that seems to be forgotten rather easily when it has such a huge impact on how the game plays. It's all of these features, that when added up seriously damage forza, just as the lack of damage and physics hurts GT. The driving experience is about the whole package, both games have gone about it differently, GT wants it to look real and feel ok, Forza wants it to feel real and look ok. Problem is, I, and quite a few other people are graphic whores, and not entirely a car enthusiast, we can't nescessarily feel the difference between how accurate the physics engines are, but we sure as hell can tell the difference between how they look, anyone can, thats the first thing you see of a game. Also, remember that these are GAMES first and foremost, they are to appeal to the widest audience and be accessable by the widest number of people, GT has always been easy to pick up and play (even with its licenses), F2 as ive said before, becomes less accessable the longer you play it.

Buying the collectors ed is the single biggest regret i have of this generation, it was an absolute waste of money for all the play i got out of it. I WANT F3 to be upto the same standard, visually, playability and accessability wise as GT, i dont want to have to buy GT5, i hate the PS3 controller, but the more that T10 cuts from F3 the more i feel it will be wasted money like F2. Thats why im critical of it, I want it to succeed where F2 failed.

This is a really subjective point of view, because i think the lighting is really average.Yeah and most people forget that Forza is about simulation and not some stupid fun-racer with bad physics and many cars.
GTs physic is far away from Forza 2 physics and won't catch up. Forza 3 even goes further and make complete tire simulation + roll-over etc.

If you really play the game, because you want some real simulation then you don't bother about 8 cars. More cars would be nice for a real "presentation", but because of HW constraints 8 cars are fine. In real life, nobody starts at last position and catches up to first position (this is unrealistic). In real life good cars drive good qualifyings and so starts from the top field. If you play a computer game like Forza you are playing it because you want to win and not to get some place in mid-field.

No...GT5p looks great and plays average, Forza 3 looks great and plays great.This statement pretty much sums you up, this game definately isnt for you and you should probably take your own advice and wait for GT5.

I agree, the new view seems more appropriate for gameplay purposes, but the other cockpit view looked so damn cool.

Looking at how great it looked, it's a shame it won't actually be in the game.

Oh well, at least we have a 60fps cockpit I suppose.

I thought the original cockpit view gave the game an awesome cg style look. Oh well, enough about that :)

Those cars looked fine in Forza 2 though. Looking at the Murcielago, 599, and Ford GT in forza 2, the models still look pretty similar mainly in terms of the shape. The image you have of the r8 is of the 2010 v10 version, which wasn't in forza 2 and does have some physical differences. Anyway, if you look at the newly modeled cars you can tell they sport more detail. The hood looks like it could pop off in this image; the hood, bumper and such actually look separated: http://images.gamersyde.com/image_forza_motorsport...

Now if you look at the Sagaris in Forza 3, which looked fine in Forza 2, it still doesn't sport the detail the new cars seem to have.

forza 3 http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/3011/forzamotorsp...
forza 2 http://media.teamxbox.com/games/ss/1476/full-res/1...
real car http://www.monzacarcare.com/uploads/images/aug_07/...

Notice on the hood where those lines seem connected and closed in Forza's models, but in the real car there are larger black spaces showing the actual moving aero parts. I assume that if they did remodel that car from scratch and not reuse forza 2 models, they would have been able to make the parts of the car actually look separate and more accurate, like the Ford Focus RS in the forza 3 pic.

Wow, nitpicking has hit a whole new level, now were complaining about the size of the gaps between car panels lol!!