dcdelgado
dcdelgado
Since 6868 Days
Posted by LEBATO
Man........if I see Natal mentioned one more time...............
NATAL!NATAL!NATAL!NATAL!NATAL!NATAL!NATAL!NATAL!NATAL!NATAL!NATAL!NATAL!NATAL!

HE he he........... :)
In reply to

** Yes We CAN!! **

deftangel - Hot stuff!
deftangel
Since 6876 Days
Posted by Optimusv2
And I have yet to see 4 player split screen confirmed. Split-screen was confirmed, but they haven't been very specific, whereas they have been specific about the existence of 4 player co-op. I really do believe that Halo Reach will have Natal support.
How much more explicit do you want them to be?

Full feature parity in terms of multi-player with Halo 3 means full feature parity in terms of multi-player with Halo 3 funnily enough. That includes 4 way split screen in MP. They've been more than explicit about the game being designed to play with a gamepad. Read between the lines of Molyneux last week and he admitted that Natal usage in Fable III had been scaled back as it is.

The matter is already closed unless there is a reason to believe otherwise. The 1% likelyhood they have to change plans and you wittering on about it don't comprise "reasons otherwise". Please, just drop it till E3 :)

In other news, here is Digital's Foundary's take on the gameplay footage in the ViDoc. My emphasis.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-h...
Posted by DigitalFoundary
First up, here's a compilation of gameplay and cut-scene elements from the video, with our customary performance graphs. We prefer to measure the complete 60Hz output of the console, but in common with most internet video, Bungie's footage is encoded at 30FPS. However, some clips appear to be blending 60 frames down to 30, and even where this occurs, it still seems to be confirming that Reach runs at 30FPS. No real surprises there.

What can we take from this? Overall performance is extremely smooth during gameplay. Not only do we see a remarkably solid 30FPS in most clips, it's clear that Bungie has added a great deal more in the way of post-processing work to the new engine. While Reach overall seems to run at the same frame-rate as Halo 3, it looks and probably feels smoother owing to a decent camera motion blur effect.

Only two clips - one cut-scene, one gameplay - show a consistent drop down to 20FPS. During the assassination scene (around 00:16), we do see torn frames though. It may well be the case that some clips have v-sync engaged, others don't. We have to remember that this is alpha footage, and presumably there's still a hell of a lot of optimisation to be done; however, it's likely that the fundamental elements of the engine are now solid and the performance overall looks promising.

While overall capture quality of the clips is low even in Bungie's own HD version, there are plenty of edges to measure and all of them seem to point towards a native resolution of 1152x720 for the new engine - a significant upgrade over Halo 3's 1152x640. Anti-aliasing doesn't appear to be employed, but the improvements in post-processing effects and resolution should make this far less noticeable than it was in Halo 3
If this is accurate, that would seem to imply to me they managed to upgrade/re-tool the Halo 3 engine enough to bump up the resolution slightly add a ton of post-processing shaders and the like and presumably, still keep the depth of lighting that necessitated the resolution drop in Halo 3 in the first place.
In reply to

http://twitter.com/deftangel

ManThatYouFear
ManThatYouFear
Since 6952 Days
Using natal you could actually kick a grunt in the nuts... hear me ACTUALLY KICK HIM IN THE NUTS!
In reply to

I think i have stood in poo

Optimusv2
Optimusv2
Since 6900 Days
Well, if you read my post Deft, that's basically what I said I was doing isn't it? We'll find out at E3. I'm not convinced by their statement, as it contains wiggle room. I would've liked them to say that the game is only being designed for the 360 controller and nothing else, that isn't the kind of statement we got, though. I think I've made my point, however, and we'll indeed find out come E3. :D

Yea, I saw the resolution confirmed on Beyond3D awhile back. I'll take the best possible game they can design over a forced 720p anyday. The Modern Warfare games have already done more than enough to showcase that it isn't an absolute must in order to have a fantastic looking game.

Thanks for linking to that article Deft, pretty cool. I'm also excited about the particle shower scene, because I know that they'll likely be using that aspect of their engine for more than just having particles rain down on vehicles. There will be a massive space battle taking place between the UNSC and the Covenant right outside the atmosphere of Reach. I expect that while these Spartans are on the ground, we'll probably see signs that such a battle is taking place, perhaps something will come crashing and burning down onto the planet. Also, we haven't necessarily seen what an explosion of a vehicle or some other object looks like yet in their game.

I'm also digging how thick the black smoke I'm seeing looks.

I wonder if the primary reason we keep seeing all of these major pieces of artwork without Noble Six in them, is because Noble Six may actually end up being the only Spartan from Noble Team that dies on this mission, or maybe his mere presence is suppose to be so utterly top secret that Bungie themselves are even playing along with how they are promoting the game? I have a feeling that the cutscene we saw with those soldiers appearing to point their guns at Noble Six could be a flashback of some sort.
In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

RC_Master
RC_Master
Since 6911 Days
Posted by Optimusv2
I wonder if the primary reason we keep seeing all of these major pieces of artwork without Noble Six in them, is because Noble Six may actually end up being the only Spartan from Noble Team that dies on this mission, or maybe his mere presence is suppose to be so utterly top secret that Bungie themselves are even playing along with how they are promoting the game? I have a feeling that the cutscene we saw with those soldiers appearing to point their guns at Noble Six could be a flashback of some sort.
You (the player) can customise the look of Noble Six. Plus you'll rarely see yourself when playing the game anyway. The other characters are far more important.
In reply to

Ignorance is the true enemy of all things.

Suhweet!

Acert93 - Mr. Bad Cop
Acert93
Since 6979 Days
No more discussion of Natal in this thread. Post in a Natal thread or start one about Natal in Reach, but until Bungie announces support in Reach or a major media source leaks info then lets just stop this tangent.
In reply to

Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

Nietzsche
Nietzsche
Since 6361 Days
Posted by ManThatYouFear
Using natal you could actually kick a grunt in the nuts... hear me ACTUALLY KICK HIM IN THE NUTS!
I wasn't aware grunts had testicles. Or maybe they have like three or something?
In reply to
Optimusv2
Optimusv2
Since 6900 Days
I believe the game is going to have a cover system of some sort. Practically every Halo title has had a cover system, except there simply wasn't some explicit animation for when you took cover behind something.

I think they could make it work by ensuring that, even though you can take cover, you can't pull any blind fire bs like a lot of these titles with cover, if you want to shoot, you gotta expose yourself the old fashion way. Also, they could make the cover animation a third person type deal, just like the assassinations.

Going a step further, imagine context sensitive cover animations. Let's say that simply crouching wouldn't be enough to provide you with cover behind a certain object, so your character scoots down lower to the point that he's almost lying down on the ground. Think about it, what makes that any different from Halo as it already is? They'd simply just be giving us an animation for when we take cover, if we so choose to use it, and it would pull out to the third person view :)
In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

FireWire - IEEE 1394
FireWire
Since 7009 Days
I hope you're kidding, because halo doesn't need a cover system IMO...
In reply to

"First come smiles, then comes lies. Last is gunfire"

SimonM7 - The other mod's bitch
SimonM7
Since 7032 Days
The lack of a sticky "cover mode" is part of the equation that keeps Halo dynamic. The whole point of cover based shooters (that use cover well) is that you're meant to use cover very much as the platform from which you engage your other tactics. The Halo way is to have you, at all times, be that platform.
In reply to

http://modeseven.blogspot.com | Dominic and Simon - dyanamic games blog duo!
Twitter: @simonlundmark
Mode-7 on Twitter: @Mode_7updates

GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Since 7008 Days
Please, no cover system. Ever.

Also, "Practically every Halo title has had a cover system" = lolwut?
In reply to
Frozpot
Frozpot
Since 6767 Days
Your shield is your cover. NOW GET YOUR BUTT OUT THERE!!
In reply to

Oooh, Profound, isn't it?

Acert93 - Mr. Bad Cop
Acert93
Since 6979 Days
The videos did show a bit of cover going on ...
In reply to

Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Since 7008 Days
Posted by Acert93
The videos did show a bit of cover going on ...
I really hope it's not third person cover, like, actually in the game. That would be sorta tragic.
In reply to
SimonM7 - The other mod's bitch
SimonM7
Since 7032 Days
Well the npc dudes have always been up to stuf you're never doing.

Seriously, cover system in Halo would be like having a motorbike game where you have to get off the bike and push it every time there's a slope uphill.
In reply to

http://modeseven.blogspot.com | Dominic and Simon - dyanamic games blog duo!
Twitter: @simonlundmark
Mode-7 on Twitter: @Mode_7updates

roxwell - PuS3Y
roxwell
Since 6957 Days
Posted by Frozpot
Your shield is your cover. NOW GET YOUR BUTT OUT THERE!!
YES SIR.

*runs in to hail of plasma*
In reply to

Artifical intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

deftangel - Hot stuff!
deftangel
Since 6876 Days
Jeez Op, way to start another tangent about another functionality that won't happen as soon as we put the kibosh on the other one :/

There's about as much chance of a cover system as there is of Reach playing like Operation Flashpoint.
In reply to

http://twitter.com/deftangel

Frozpot
Frozpot
Since 6767 Days
Ah
Posted by roxwell
YES SIR.

*runs in to hail of plasma*
Good! Now they are distracted!*runs and hides under a table*
In reply to

Oooh, Profound, isn't it?

Optimusv2
Optimusv2
Since 6900 Days
Posted by GriftGFX
Please, no cover system. Ever.

Also, "Practically every Halo title has had a cover system" = lolwut?
Yes, practically every Halo game has had a cover system, except it entailed the player hightailing their butt behind some structure where they could avoid getting shot for a while. Where would be the harm in giving players a dedicated animation for something players have always been able to do in Halo, as long as it doesn't allow the player to do something like blind fire, which would be too big of a departure from Halo's gameplay?

Not a sticky cover system, I mean one where you yourself hit a button and you take cover. Hell, they could even make it like the assassination mechanic where you hold a button down to get into cover. When I'm in some trouble in Halo, I run behind the safest piece of cover that I can, and stay there for a bit.

They did say that there are a whole host of new features that they aren't talking about yet, and I wouldn't be surprised if a cover animation is one of those things. As Acert said, they did show quite a bit of cover in the vidoc and I'm suspicious that such things won't just be the type of thing that your npc allies can do, even the elites were shown to be taking advantage of cover, and with all the advancements they are making with regards to animations, I won't be surprised if a cover animation is something they decide that they want to explore for the player.

Another thing said in the vidoc is that the game would be doing many things that players won't expect from a Halo game. This was said by the executive producer, I believe, at the tail end of the vidoc. What exactly can the game be doing that players wouldn't expect in a Halo game? Perhaps cover is one of those things. I also pray that we get to use the fiber optic probe like Master Chief uses so often in the books.

But perhaps one could be right in suggesting that your shield is your cover, haha :)

You could even make an argument that a cover system of some sort would perhaps serve a strategic end, especially if it pulled out your field of view enough in third person for you to get a better look at the battlefield.
In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

FireWire - IEEE 1394
FireWire
Since 7009 Days
Posted by Optimusv2
Yes, practically every Halo game has had a cover system, except it entailed the player hightailing their butt behind some structure where they could avoid getting shot for a while. Where would be the harm in giving players a dedicated animation for something players have always been able to do in Halo, as long as it doesn't allow the player to do something like blind fire, which would be too big of a departure from Halo's gameplay?
Op ofcourse people would jump behind a piece of scenery to get their shields recharged but we really don't need a button to this....
And what kind of animation would they need? It would just take away from the pace of the game... Also the AI is usually trying to flank you when you are taking cover, and when that happens the player needs to be mobile to move again...
In reply to

"First come smiles, then comes lies. Last is gunfire"

Ronsauce
Ronsauce
Since 6993 Days
Posted by Optimusv2
Yes, practically every Halo game has had a cover system, except it entailed the player hightailing their butt behind some structure where they could avoid getting shot for a while.
I don't think that simply breaking line of sight entails having a cover system. Honestly, it's a huuuuge stretch to claim Halo games have had a cover system.
In reply to

Zapp Brannigan: If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

Optimusv2
Optimusv2
Since 6900 Days
Posted by FireWire
Op ofcourse people would jump behind a piece of scenery to get their shields recharged but we really don't need a button to this....
And what kind of animation would they need? It would just take away from the pace of the game... Also the AI is usually trying to flank you when you are taking cover, and when that happens the player needs to be mobile to move again...
Great point with regards to pace of the game and AI trying to flank, but then if Bungie ever implemented a cover system, they would probably do it well enough that it didn't hurt the pace much. More than that, seeing the introduction of the third person assassination kill when an enemy isn't aware of your presence, you can probably make the assumption that Bungie intends to throw many different situations at the player where they will be perhaps encouraged to operate at a specific pace or in a specific fashion, or they will at the least present the player with the option of going about things in a number of different ways.

In regards to the AI flanking, a pull out to third person when the player enters cover wouldn't actually be too bad in giving the player advanced warning of potential incoming threats.

Also, Ron, breaking the line of sight for awhile to go hide behind something while you gather yourself isn't much different from a cover system, the only thing missing is an animation that explicitly signals to the player, "hey, you're taking cover from fire right now"

Now, I understand where some are coming from. The implication is that the inclusion of a cover animation would encourage individuals to play more hide and seek than actually manning up and shooting it out. However, if you can't even fire back while in cover (no blindfire) and absolutely MUST come out of cover to fire, what really changes? If people want to make themselves sitting ducks by overusing the new cover animation to their detriment, then that's their decision. However, there wouldn't exactly be an ironclad rule that you MUST use the cover system, you can simply opt to run for cover in the more traditional Halo fashion.

Anyway, that's just my thinking on the matter. What's more, when the executive producer said what he did in the vidoc regarding things people won't expect in a Halo game, he was careful to mention it only within the context of the Campaign. Bungie probably wouldn't implement it in multi, or perhaps they will, but will give players the option to disable it.
In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Ronsauce
Ronsauce
Since 6993 Days
Also, Ron, breaking the line of sight for awhile to go hide behind something while you gather yourself isn't much different from a cover system, the only thing missing is an animation that explicitly signals to the player, "hey, you're taking cover from fire right now"
You might as well say Super Mario Bros. had a cover system then.

The "system" in "cover system" implies that there's some kind of mechanic being implemented in the game. I could hide around a corner in Wolfenstein 3D, but nobody would say that it had a cover system. You're being far too liberal with the term.
In reply to

Zapp Brannigan: If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Since 7008 Days
Posted by Optimusv2
Yes, practically every Halo game has had a cover system, except it entailed the player hightailing their butt behind some structure where they could avoid getting shot for a while.
That's just downright silly. Every shooter has always had cover. That's not a cover system. An actual cover mechanic is a game changing feature, and in my opinion, one that sucks.

No thanks.
Posted by deftangel
There's about as much chance of a cover system as there is of Reach playing like Operation Flashpoint.
And thank god for that.
In reply to
Slabs
Slabs
Since 7038 Days
A Bohemia Interactive made Halo game would be bloody brilliant (after the bugfixes and patches)
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