Optimusv2
Optimusv2
Since 6901 Days
This message is in "Boulet Time" (TM), If you still *really* want to see it, click here
They keep emphasizing the surpises they got in store for the campaign, I wonder if there's any chance at all of us seeing anything at all from the Chief's or Blue Team's perspective?

You know what I think would be really cool? What if they surprise us by letting us play as the Chief when he johnson, cortana, an odst, an oni lieutenant and a naval pilot hijack a Covenant flag ship and use it to get back to Reach?

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Phaethon360 - Mr Pant<s>s</s>ies
Phaethon360
Since 6854 Days
I'm sorry Op. That was just so silly I HAD to boulet it.
In reply to

Don't you know who I am? I'm the goddamned Banman.

http://couchcampus.com

icemanufc
Since 5674 Days
EG Interview.
Jarrard and Lehto and the video they showed at X10 make a big deal of Bungie's overhaul of its engine with regard to visual detail and animation, including motion capture for the first time. It's to bring the drama to life, they say, although it will also have significant gameplay implications, with the new animation rig giving AI characters much more flexibility and fluidity of action.

Nevertheless, we can't recall the last time a sequel was sold to us so emphatically on the promise of improved visuals and scale above all else. The (admittedly wonderful) new weapon and character models are pored over pornographically, and the words "generational leap forward", "upgrade", "complete overhaul", and above all "more" keep cropping up. Four times as many polygons in characters as Halo 3. Particles in the thousands rather than hundreds.

It almost sounds defensive. "Well... we realised that we needed to compete against quite a number of other titles," admits Lehto, the subtext being that Halo hasn't been a visual powerhouse for some years now. "It really did require us to rebuild nearly everything across the board."
'Halo: Reach' Screenshot 3

Jackal of all trades - the Skirmisher.

Although some of the footage shown is rough, the improvements are clear, massive, and naturally very welcome. It has a strikingly different mood and colour palette to previous Haloes' neon tones - grittier and more muted. "The story we're telling is definitely darker," says Lehto. "So we'll use colour. We'll use it to really impact the player's experience and help drive their emotional response. And we definitely are taking more tonal control of that kind of thing... That said, it's not a drab or dreary look and feel. That's not Halo."

More exciting still is the increased number of AIs this engine can handle - four Spartans, the player and eight marines against thirty or so Covenant is given as an example. As long as the improvements come without any cost to the openness or scale of battle, Halo devotees can rest easy, and indeed Bungie claims to be pushing this further in most instances.

In perhaps the single most significant nod to Combat Evolved, the Covenant Elite is once more the principal enemy - always a more worthy and threatening adversary than the hateful Brute, with more cunning, elegance and power (if only in our heads). Cuddly allies by the time Halo 3 concluded, it's great to see them restored to fearsome status. They're joined by old, new and redesigned enemies, including a comically heavily-armoured Grunt and a feathery, much more aggressive cousin to the Jackal.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/halo-reach-x10-p...
In reply to
Optimusv2
Optimusv2
Since 6901 Days
Posted by Phaethon360
I'm sorry Op. That was just so silly I HAD to boulet it.
It isn't as silly as you think. The Chief did exactly that after the events of the first Halo in the book 'Halo : First Strike'

Fighting on Reach raged on during Master Chief's mission in space just above Reach, during the entire events of Halo : Combat Evolved and after the events of Halo : Combat Evolved came to a close.

Master Chief DID eventually make his way back to Reach in time to rescue the remaining Spartan IIs, Vice Admiral Whitcomb and Dr. Halsey. They had in their possession something that drew the complete attention of practically any and all covenant forces that could be signaled, the Covenant called it the "Holy Light".


It's on that highjacked Covenant Flag Ship that Master Chief, Sgt Johnson, an ONI lieutenant, an ODST, Cortana etc were able to make their way to Reach. So Bungie potentially surprising people with the inclusion of a gameplay section of the Chief helping to take over that flagship isn't exactly as silly as it may seem. Reach ultimately is lost, but not all the way glassed or obliterated, even after Master Chief's actions in Halo : CE.

I'm just operating on the statement from Bungie that there are going to be some major surprises in Reach's campaign that people didn't expect, not in regards to features, but halo fiction related.
In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

blmbox
blmbox
Since 6340 Days
I still can't see it happening - and Master Chief turning up in a Halo game is hardly a major surprise.
In reply to
Optimusv2
Optimusv2
Since 6901 Days
Posted by blmbox
I still can't see it happening - and Master Chief turning up in a Halo game is hardly a major surprise.
Yea, it probably won't, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did. There has to be some part of Bungie just itching to put the chief in this game with all their greatly improved technical components.
In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

LEBATO - IS WRONG
LEBATO
Since 7130 Days
Who's glad Optimus is in no shape or form involved in the design elements of this game? Raise your hand.


lol, phaeton is the one on the left, the one waring a t-shirt.

Ok, consensus reached. No more crazy ideas please.
In reply to

Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

Optimusv2
Optimusv2
Since 6901 Days
How do you know I'm not involved in the design elements of the game :P

**Spikey hair for all Spartans this instant!**

**Where the hell is Noble Six's gigantic sword? God damnit!! If you can't make it happen, I'll find people who can!**

Correction, I should be the one glad some of the people on here aren't involved in the design elements of this game.

Why? For one, it would basically have sacrificed larger battles, bigger environments and better gameplay for awesome graphics (Damn, although the graphics comment doesn't have quite as much punch as it use to, since Reach looks amazing :P)

On a more serious note, however, I don't think there's any chance whatsoever third person assassinations would be in if some of the folks on here had control :P Some are too afraid of a dev trying new things. I, on the other hand, absolutely welcome it. I wanted to see more of the kinds of things that Spartans do in the books, and being able to see a cool third person knife kill by a Spartan is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. Heck, I'm still hoping and praying that the fiber-optic probe that Master Chief uses regularly is in the game in some form :D But of course the game needs to be designed in such a way that its inclusion is actually worthwhile under specific circumstances. But then why would that be an issue, they clearly already designed the game so third person assassinations were something that could be done.

Persistent armor abilities most certainly wouldn't exist either, people would say how it would destroy halo gameplay and utterly wreck MP. ;)
In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Frozpot
Frozpot
Since 6767 Days
I'm right there with you OPs! I would love to see some scenes from the books take place. There was some great gaming potential there. I am not, however, behind the Idea of a cover system in Halo. Would change all the dynamics of the gameplay. I also wouldn't mind playing the scene where the Chief was collecting that data in Zero G. Awesome scene( especially loved the part were he got the 'nade behind the Jackal's shield, and it's blood coated the walls, he, he...
In reply to

Oooh, Profound, isn't it?

BLackHawkodst
BLackHawkodst
Since 5895 Days
Got to agree, if they could work some of the books story into the game that would be great.
In reply to

Prepare To Drop!!

Optimusv2
Optimusv2
Since 6901 Days
Posted by Frozpot
I'm right there with you OPs! I would love to see some scenes from the books take place. There was some great gaming potential there. I am not, however, behind the Idea of a cover system in Halo. Would change all the dynamics of the gameplay. I also wouldn't mind playing the scene where the Chief was collecting that data in Zero G. Awesome scene( especially loved the part were he got the 'nade behind the Jackal's shield, and it's blood coated the walls, he, he...
Hey, I'm not aching for a cover system, I love Halo the way it is, but just going on what I saw in that vidoc, it seems like there really may be some cover mechanic in place. Even the Elites were taking cover. Would they really do that? I mean, is it just a cool way to show off new ai behaviors and/or animations, as opposed to some feature that may end up being in the campaign? Like the executive producer said, they are doing things in the campaign that people will absolutely not expect from a Halo game, perhaps a cover mechanic is one of those things. Hey, I wouldn't mind being wrong, I'm fine with Halo as it already is, even though I'd like to see a few other really cool touches added on.
In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Tinks
Tinks
Since 6938 Days
Haven't the elites and other enemies always taken cover?
In reply to
dcdelgado
dcdelgado
Since 6868 Days
Have you been able to play as Elites in MP before?, as it looks like you can in Reach.
In reply to

** Yes We CAN!! **

Optimusv2
Optimusv2
Since 6901 Days
Posted by Tinks
Haven't the elites and other enemies always taken cover?
I honestly can't even recall rofl.

They've hid before, but I don't think it has ever been visually emphasized to THAT degree, like is seen in the latest vidoc. I can't say about the player, but the elites most definitely do have dedicated cover animations. I don't think I saw any blind firing, however, they had to expose themselves to shoot.
In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Jin187
Jin187
Since 6753 Days
Posted by dcdelgado
Have you been able to play as Elites in MP before?, as it looks like you can in Reach.
Yes :)
In reply to
gym4life
Since 5533 Days
Footage looks great, if it holds that quality in splitscreen coop that will be great.
In reply to
Optimusv2
Optimusv2
Since 6901 Days
Looking like that at this stage, I imagine that they must feel they can achieve exactly that in both co-op and split-screen, unless they intend to tone it down for those modes.
In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Since 7008 Days
Posted by Optimusv2
Looking like that at this stage, I imagine that they must feel they can achieve exactly that in both co-op and split-screen, unless they intend to tone it down for those modes.
There's no way they won't tone it down for splitscreen. Look at Halo 3 in splitscreen. They can't keep the same fidelity and image quality and drive four cameras.
In reply to
Optimusv2
Optimusv2
Since 6901 Days
Posted by GriftGFX
There's no way they won't tone it down for splitscreen. Look at Halo 3 in splitscreen. They can't keep the same fidelity and image quality and drive four cameras.
Heh, thanks for the info, I had no idea they toned things down for split-screen in Halo 3, since I never actually tried to use the thing. That's potentially fantastic news then. Guess I don't have to worry quite as much about the inclusion of split screen.
In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Since 7008 Days
Yea it's not even HD. Splitscreen in Halo 3 is 480p, and it looks significantly worse than solo play. That's why I think it's funny that people think splitscreen holds back single player so much, because they make sacrifices to get splitscreen to work, not the other way around. I'm not saying there's zero impact on the solo experience, but it's probably a lot more marginal than people seem to think it is.
In reply to
icemanufc
Since 5674 Days
Cool video interview from Halo Waypoint.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wddliAZ6DPc
In reply to
Optimusv2
Optimusv2
Since 6901 Days
Posted by GriftGFX
Yea it's not even HD. Splitscreen in Halo 3 is 480p, and it looks significantly worse than solo play. That's why I think it's funny that people think splitscreen holds back single player so much, because they make sacrifices to get splitscreen to work, not the other way around. I'm not saying there's zero impact on the solo experience, but it's probably a lot more marginal than people seem to think it is.
Yep, I'd definitely have to agree with ya, and I was one of the primary anti split-screen folks on here, if not the only one :P
In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Acert93 - Mr. Bad Cop
Acert93
Since 6979 Days
Posted by GriftGFX
Yea it's not even HD. Splitscreen in Halo 3 is 480p, and it looks significantly worse than solo play. That's why I think it's funny that people think splitscreen holds back single player so much, because they make sacrifices to get splitscreen to work, not the other way around. I'm not saying there's zero impact on the solo experience, but it's probably a lot more marginal than people seem to think it is.
Read my previous post on this issue. It isn't trivial and is the very reason so few games do 2, let alone 4, player coop. Everything from game design, memory management, sound, AI, to netcode need to scale as well as graphical effects that can deprecate effectively. Hint: If you are CPU bound (AI heavy games often are, a lot of sound is processed on the CPU, you now have to have 2-4 complete "instances" of your physics--no more ignoring the guy 200M away if there is a coop player there, all the extra Geometry processing CPU side, and so forth) it doesn't matter how well cutting resolution helps.

So how is this marginal? If Bungie has a ton of CPU cycles laying around they might as well increase enemies to 80...
In reply to

Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Since 7008 Days
I'm just saying that I've seen people claim that Halo would literally look four times better if it didn't have splitscreen multiplayer. I think that's a vast over-simplification of the stress that splitscreen puts on the solo experience. So maybe it isn't marginal, but I doubt it's as crippling as some people have suggested. It's not, for example, why Halo 3 doesn't run in full 720p, or why it doesn't feature better image quality in terms of anti-aliasing or texture filtering, etc.. Correct? And is the loss in quality as simple as cutting the resolution, or are they cutting corners elsewhere as well? Couldn't their sound engine, for example, make some sacrifices in splitscreen? Do they tone down textures and geometry to lighten the load on the GPU? AI and physics seem to stand out as the biggest hurdles.

So it has an impact on game design, and they have to make some sacrifices to make it work (it obviously doesn't work for L4D/2!). I still think people tend to over simplify these things (and perhaps I did as well). Regardless.. it's too important a feature for this franchise to have any less than four player splitscreen. It would be pretty disappointing if it didn't.
Posted by Acert93
So how is this marginal? If Bungie has a ton of CPU cycles laying around they might as well increase enemies to 80...
This confuses me a little.. for a couple of reasons. Maybe you can clear this up: In terms of the solo experience, according to your post, they do have CPU cycles to laying around, right? They must, in order to accommodate splitscreen support.. Couldn't some of that spare horsepower be used to improve (solo) performance?

If you've discussed this stuff before, I'd be happy to read it.. was it in this thread?
In reply to
Frozpot
Frozpot
Since 6767 Days
I think the short answer is that most Fanboys are prone to hyperbole, in both positive and negative ways. I'm a HUGE Halo fanboy but i try not to over do it. Anyway. I get that you have to design everything for scalability, but I don't see how it can really eat performance in single player.

I'd say the reason Halo doesn't have the visual impact of other high profile games is because it does all the things that have been brought up throughout this thread. Large, open environments, great AI in large quantities( that alone should be significant), Vehicles, a lot of dynamic lights(in Reach's case), and recording it all on top of that( not to mention the explosions and atmospherics have to be approached differently because you can slow-mo through them).

It annoys me when people equivalate a games visuals with it's technical prowess. Killzone and MW2 may look better on the surface, but it loses its luster the closer you look. Things like AI and open environments with dynamic gameplay are far better uses of resources, IMO...
In reply to

Oooh, Profound, isn't it?

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