Halo Reach

Since 6877 Days

I think you mean Boarding Action? We had some legendary one-kill-to-win sniper games on that map back in the day

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ManThatYouFear

Since 6953 Days

Posted by deftangel

I think you mean Boarding Action? We had some legendary one-kill-to-win sniper games on that map back in the day

yeah boarding action sounds right, was a damn fine sniping match (no shields) i just personally got lost tooo much.

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I want my games room finished now :(

Since 6877 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

Well, I'm pretty confused, but I haven't read up on Arena as much as you have obviously. Are they still using the truskill ranking per playlist, but hiding the ranking?

That's my understanding yes. So in any game of Arena (or any other game types), regardless of whether you're at the start of a season or in the middle of one - your TruSkill is being used in the background to determine the match. The divisions are then there to compartmentalize things and add the competition/progression/ranking element on a seasonal basis to discourage rank resets, second accounts etc which compromised TruSkill matching in Halo 3.

The cR and commendation systems to not appear to be well implemented at the moment. I thought the original idea of commendations was to build up data about a persons playstyle which can then be useful in team games and as badges for players who aren't necessairly the best slayers to show. I.e. if a player happens to be a great driver, he's really useful in some situations but presently there isn't really a way of showing that. Having a "Vehicle expert" commendation scored on medals for splatters, driving assists, how many times they pick up an objective carrier etc. would give players an incentive to specialise in that area if they're good on it and have something to show for it. That's what I inferred from the Ars stuff when it was announced. It's a pretty piss poor implementation of this idea at the minute.

The cR system is a bit of a black box and with only limited things to do with it right now it seems a bit lost as well. People like extraneous reward systems and it's quite feasible to integrate one here without harming the gameplay. There should be more stuff to do with credits and a more visible display of how they tie in with the commendations and what cR bonuses are available for achieving them.

The point of them in my view should be to reward players for doing good things in the game, especially when slaying isn't the primary objective. It's the intention I think but implementation at present is way off.

In reply to

[quote=GriftGFX]Well, I'm pretty confused, but I haven't read up on Arena as much as you have obviously. Are they still using the truskill ranking per playlist, but hiding the ranking?[/quote]

That's my understanding yes. So in any game of Arena (or any other game types), regardless of whether you're at the start of a season or in the middle of one - your TruSkill is being used in the background to determine the match. The divisions are then there to compartmentalize things and add the competition/progression/ranking element on a seasonal basis to discourage rank resets, second accounts etc which compromised TruSkill matching in Halo 3.

The cR and commendation systems to not appear to be well implemented at the moment. I thought the original idea of commendations was to build up data about a persons playstyle which can then be useful in team games and as badges for players who aren't necessairly the best slayers to show. I.e. if a player happens to be a great driver, he's really useful in some situations but presently there isn't really a way of showing that. Having a "Vehicle expert" commendation scored on medals for splatters, driving assists, how many times they pick up an objective carrier etc. would give players an incentive to specialise in that area if they're good on it and have something to show for it. That's what I inferred from the Ars stuff when it was announced. It's a pretty piss poor implementation of this idea at the minute.

The cR system is a bit of a black box and with only limited things to do with it right now it seems a bit lost as well. People like extraneous reward systems and it's quite feasible to integrate one here without harming the gameplay. There should be more stuff to do with credits and a more visible display of how they tie in with the commendations and what cR bonuses are available for achieving them.

The point of them in my view should be to reward players for doing good things in the game, especially when slaying isn't the primary objective. It's the intention I think but implementation at present is way off.

http://twitter.com/deftangel

Since 7009 Days

Well, if they're extraneous rewards, than they'll never really matter. They don't effect your score (your real score, you know, the one in game), and all you can unlock is armor.. so.. it's hard to see how it's going to vastly improve in retail. I don't mind that stuff, it's sorta fun. The irony is that people play the meta game in many games more than the actual game! Such extraneous rewards and achievements can be detrimental to how the game is supposed to be played.

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Since 6362 Days

i think meta game stuff is all fine and dandy as long as it doesn't interfere TOO much w/ the acutal game itself and how ppl play it. in reach's case, i can't see this being all that much of an issue.

I just really, really, really want to get my hands on some invasion! the vids of it look so fantastically fun

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Jato

Since 6886 Days

Wow, they really need to get rid of that one ridiculous ability...I forget the name, but it's the one where you curl up like a scared little baby when people shoot at you. ;)

I dunno, maybe COD4 has ruined it for me, but the gameplay is really annoying me. I guess I've been spoiled by being able to choose my own gear in COD4 and not having to unleash an entire clip to kill someone. I just don't have the patience anymore for that shit.

Will give it a go here and there, but I'm far from hooked. I'm doing pretty ok in terms of kills mind you, but it's just not clicking...

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-- "Bob Loblaw Lobs Law Bomb" --

-- "You're under arrest, and I'm breaking up with you..." --

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Acert93

Since 6980 Days

Team Slayer Pro and SWAT should be the modes you play.

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Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

Since 6877 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

Well, if they're extraneous rewards, than they'll never really matter. They don't effect your score (your real score, you know, the one in game), and all you can unlock is armor.. so.. it's hard to see how it's going to vastly improve in retail. I don't mind that stuff, it's sorta fun. The irony is that people play the meta game in many games more than the actual game! Such extraneous rewards and achievements can be detrimental to how the game is supposed to be played.

Welcome to the next three years. That discussion is going to run and run. Done right, I think they can be a fun way to augment the actual gameplay proper. If someone can unlock some cool armour because they have fun playing the game a specific way (i.e. being the vehicle driver which normally goes unrecognized) then more power to them.

Reading the relevant Weekly update, they seem pretty congniscant of the balance required but it's a hard thing to get right.

On another note, I just played some Invasion on Boneyard. I see what they are trying to do, I think it needs more work. It definitely needs more players per team and whilst I appreciate the intention of getting netcode data, they need to make it so everybody gets a round of attack and defence. Otherwise in my view people will stop playing it. I'm quite tolerant but others are less so, three guys I'm on with now have played 2 games and that's enough for them.

Boneyard itself feels a bit bland and the vehicles don't feel that powerful. Moreover, nobody uses them at the minute. The feel is markedly off compared to the rest of the game.

People will bitch about initial spawns & loadouts on the Elite side but once people grok the routes into the ship they aren't actually a problem. Party splitting is, however.

I don't think it's a write off but the format needs a lot of work and putting it out there at this stage might turn some people off. That said, it'll be the best feedback they'll get.

I'm a bit worried the same thing will happen to Overlook / Generator which strikes me as some experimental stuff to get networking data. If the map is too big, it's not going to be as much fun.

In reply to

[quote=GriftGFX]Well, if they're [i]extraneous rewards[/i], than they'll never really matter. They don't effect your score (your real score, you know, the one in game), and all you can unlock is armor.. so.. it's hard to see how it's going to vastly improve in retail. I don't mind that stuff, it's sorta fun. The irony is that people play the meta game in many games more than the actual game! Such extraneous rewards and achievements can be detrimental to how the game is supposed to be played.[/quote]

Welcome to the next three years. That discussion is going to run and run. Done right, I think they can be a fun way to augment the actual gameplay proper. If someone can unlock some cool armour because they have fun playing the game a specific way (i.e. being the vehicle driver which normally goes unrecognized) then more power to them.

Reading the relevant Weekly update, they seem pretty congniscant of the balance required but it's a hard thing to get right.

On another note, I just played some Invasion on Boneyard. I see what they are trying to do, I think it needs more work. It definitely needs more players per team and whilst I appreciate the intention of getting netcode data, they need to make it so everybody gets a round of attack and defence. Otherwise in my view people will stop playing it. I'm quite tolerant but others are less so, three guys I'm on with now have played 2 games and that's enough for them.

Boneyard itself feels a bit bland and the vehicles don't feel that powerful. Moreover, nobody uses them at the minute. The feel is markedly off compared to the rest of the game.

People will bitch about initial spawns & loadouts on the Elite side but once people grok the routes into the ship they aren't actually a problem. Party splitting is, however.

I don't think it's a write off but the format needs a lot of work and putting it out there at this stage might turn some people off. That said, it'll be the best feedback they'll get.

I'm a bit worried the same thing will happen to Overlook / Generator which strikes me as some experimental stuff to get networking data. If the map is too big, it's not going to be as much fun.

http://twitter.com/deftangel

Phaethon360

Since 6855 Days

More videos from Papa Phaethon

WHAT THE %#$! DRIVER!? | Starring: Vehemence, Phaethon360, and Anonymous Noob Driver

InVaDeD | Starring: Phaethon360, CrazyKiller246, and WayOfTheGamer

At this rate I'll need more minutes. But you need to spend money for those not points. Lame.

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Don't you know who I am? I'm the goddamned Banman.

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LEBATO

Since 7131 Days

Was that guy driving the warthog drunk?

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Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

Phaethon360

Since 6855 Days

Or ballsy. Either way it was pretty epic that we survived a head on collision with the tank. I had been spectating, ready to respawn on Vehemence when all of a sudden I was spawned into the passenger side of the hog. I just launched grenades like crazy.

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Don't you know who I am? I'm the goddamned Banman.

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Since 7009 Days

Posted by deftangel

Welcome to the next three years. That discussion is going to run and run. Done right, I think they can be a fun way to augment the actual gameplay proper. If someone can unlock some cool armour because they have fun playing the game a specific way (i.e. being the vehicle driver which normally goes unrecognized) then more power to them.

Reading the relevant Weekly update, they seem pretty congniscant of the balance required but it's a hard thing to get right.

Yeah I'm just not seeing how any of that is relevant. The game itself should be providing the incentive to play it properly. But hey, if people want to live in an imaginary world where their KDR doesn't have an impact on team objective games, more power to them I guess.

Posted by deftangel

On another note, I just played some Invasion on Boneyard. I see what they are trying to do, I think it needs more work. It definitely needs more players per team and whilst I appreciate the intention of getting netcode data, they need to make it so everybody gets a round of attack and defence. Otherwise in my view people will stop playing it. I'm quite tolerant but others are less so, three guys I'm on with now have played 2 games and that's enough for them.

Sounds like a worthy successor to BTB! Not having each team play both attack and defense sounds really broken. Bungie makes great games but Halo has always been at its best in Team Slayer imo. I love that there's so much variety in what games you can play, but the more quantity in objective modes we get, the less quality I see. They've never done anything even remotely as entertaining as conquest. Even assault is no search & destroy, etc.

In reply to

[quote=deftangel]Welcome to the next three years. That discussion is going to run and run. Done right, I think they can be a fun way to augment the actual gameplay proper. If someone can unlock some cool armour because they have fun playing the game a specific way (i.e. being the vehicle driver which normally goes unrecognized) then more power to them.

Reading the relevant Weekly update, they seem pretty congniscant of the balance required but it's a hard thing to get right. [/quote]

Yeah I'm just not seeing how any of that is relevant. The game itself should be providing the incentive to play it properly. But hey, if people want to live in an imaginary world where their KDR doesn't have an impact on team objective games, more power to them I guess.

[quote=deftangel]On another note, I just played some Invasion on Boneyard. I see what they are trying to do, I think it needs more work. It definitely needs more players per team and whilst I appreciate the intention of getting netcode data, they need to make it so everybody gets a round of attack and defence. Otherwise in my view people will stop playing it. I'm quite tolerant but others are less so, three guys I'm on with now have played 2 games and that's enough for them.[/quote]

Sounds like a worthy successor to BTB! Not having each team play both attack and defense sounds really broken. Bungie makes great games but Halo has always been at its best in Team Slayer imo. I love that there's so much variety in what games you can play, but the more quantity in objective modes we get, the less quality I see. They've never done anything even remotely as entertaining as conquest. Even assault is no search & destroy, etc.

Since 6362 Days

Well Grift, saying that they have never done anything remotely as entertaining as conquest I assume you are speaking in terms of your opinion and not stating such as fact correct, b/c by the way you type it I get the impression it's like you are making an objective criticism. Again, Ill assume you are just speaking of your personal taste as i can only imagine how many millions of talented gamers might disagree with the quality of Bungie's game types.

Here is the thing, Battlefield is really fun, but I have already started to grow tired of bad company 2, it's still a good time, but I think Halo's game types and massive variety and overall quality give that franchise legs that so few other shooters can manage.

Either way, I think Bungie is doing a great job adding new and interesting ways to play Halo, even if they are not as much fun as slayer (and what really ever is in Halo), I think Bungie certainly has the talent to make some really exciting game types. I can only imagine how much fun things will get once we are playing customized games with the final product.

In reply to

Well Grift, saying that they have never done anything remotely as entertaining as conquest I assume you are speaking in terms of your opinion and not stating such as fact correct, b/c by the way you type it I get the impression it's like you are making an objective criticism. Again, Ill assume you are just speaking of your personal taste as i can only imagine how many millions of talented gamers might disagree with the quality of Bungie's game types.

Here is the thing, Battlefield is really fun, but I have already started to grow tired of bad company 2, it's still a good time, but I think Halo's game types and massive variety and overall quality give that franchise legs that so few other shooters can manage.

Either way, I think Bungie is doing a great job adding new and interesting ways to play Halo, even if they are not as much fun as slayer (and what really ever is in Halo), I think Bungie certainly has the talent to make some really exciting game types. I can only imagine how much fun things will get once we are playing customized games with the final product.

Since 7009 Days

That's why they play oddball all the time in MLG I guess? :P

And hey, I love Halo CTF and Assault, I just think that they're poor compared to other attack/defend games. Hell, the scoring in Halo has never really made much sense to me. I hate the fact that public games can so easily end in a tie, or worse, can force you to play rounds on the losing side that are absolutely futile (because you literally can't win). And honestly, I think it's pretty objectively correct to say that something like three-plot pails in comparison to conquest. Bad Company 2 is a great game, but I can see how one might get tired of it. It has a lot of its own issues, and while it actually has more variety in gameplay than pretty much anything else out there (all contained in two game modes!), I feel the same strain. I can't wait for, and hope that noobs don't ruin, Battlefield 3.

When aren't we talking about our personal taste? I don't need to qualify every opinion as an opinion when it's obvious that's what it is. The best objective modes in Halo are CTF and Assault. Oh no! I did it again!

In reply to

That's why they play oddball all the time in MLG I guess? :P

And hey, I love Halo CTF and Assault, I just think that they're poor compared to other attack/defend games. Hell, the scoring in Halo has never really made much sense to me. I hate the fact that public games can so easily end in a tie, or worse, can force you to play rounds on the losing side that are absolutely futile (because you literally can't win). And honestly, I think it's pretty objectively correct to say that something like three-plot pails in comparison to conquest. Bad Company 2 is a great game, but I can see how one might get tired of it. It has a [i]lot[/i] of its own issues, and while it actually has more variety in gameplay than pretty much anything else out there (all contained in two game modes!), I feel the same strain. I can't wait for, and hope that noobs don't ruin, Battlefield 3.

When aren't we talking about our personal taste? I don't need to qualify every opinion as an opinion when it's obvious that's what it is. The best objective modes in Halo are CTF and Assault. Oh no! I did it again!

Since 6877 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

Sounds like a worthy successor to BTB! Not having each team play both attack and defense sounds really broken.

I should stress that's only for the beta, so they can get as much networking/matchmaking data as possible. Like I said, appreciate the reason for it but it's not helping matters.

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GrimThorne

Since 6881 Days

Posted by Jato

Wow, they really need to get rid of that one ridiculous ability...I forget the name, but it's the one where you curl up like a scared little baby when people shoot at you. ;)

I dunno, maybe COD4 has ruined it for me, but the gameplay is really annoying me. I guess I've been spoiled by being able to choose my own gear in COD4 and not having to unleash an entire clip to kill someone. I just don't have the patience anymore for that shit.

Will give it a go here and there, but I'm far from hooked. I'm doing pretty ok in terms of kills mind you, but it's just not clicking...

Halo is no longer my favorite FPS and the Reach beta is hardly ground breaking in terms of gameplay mechanics, but it can hardly be denied that Bungie made significant improvements that add alot of fun to the Halo experience. I'll be exploring more of it's features this weekend.

But I understand what you're saying. Transitioning between COD and the beta was a little difficult for me as well, but you'll find that the more distance you put between the two games the better Reach will be. At least that's how it's felt to me.

In reply to

[quote=Jato]Wow, they really need to get rid of that one ridiculous ability...I forget the name, but it's the one where you curl up like a scared little baby when people shoot at you. ;)

I dunno, maybe COD4 has ruined it for me, but the gameplay is really annoying me. I guess I've been spoiled by being able to choose my own gear in COD4 and not having to unleash an entire clip to kill someone. I just don't have the patience anymore for that shit.

Will give it a go here and there, but I'm far from hooked. I'm doing pretty ok in terms of kills mind you, but it's just not clicking...[/quote]

Halo is no longer my favorite FPS and the Reach beta is hardly ground breaking in terms of gameplay mechanics, but it can hardly be denied that Bungie made significant improvements that add alot of fun to the Halo experience.  I'll be exploring more of it's features this weekend.

But I understand what you're saying.  Transitioning between COD and the beta was a little difficult for me as well, but you'll find that the more distance you put between the two games the better Reach will be.  At least that's how it's felt to me.

Since 6362 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

That's why they play oddball all the time in MLG I guess? :P

And hey, I love Halo CTF and Assault, I just think that they're poor compared to other attack/defend games. Hell, the scoring in Halo has never really made much sense to me. I hate the fact that public games can so easily end in a tie, or worse, can force you to play rounds on the losing side that are absolutely futile (because you literally can't win). And honestly, I think it's pretty objectively correct to say that something like three-plot pails in comparison to conquest. Bad Company 2 is a great game, but I can see how one might get tired of it. It has a lot of its own issues, and while it actually has more variety in gameplay than pretty much anything else out there (all contained in two game modes!), I feel the same strain. I can't wait for, and hope that noobs don't ruin, Battlefield 3.

When aren't we talking about our personal taste? I don't need to qualify every opinion as an opinion when it's obvious that's what it is. The best objective modes in Halo are CTF and Assault. Oh no! I did it again!

we are always talking about personal taste, it's just that quite often we get carried away w/ our own opinion, which is almost always far less qualified than we act like it is

it's just in the manner of how ppl present their opinion though. I'm FAR from perfect, but i TRY to use phrases like "i prefer" or i use the old fav IMO more often then necessary just to make the point, but again, it's hard to convey that all the time i know perfectly well.

It's just that many ppl say things with a sense of objective truth that just gets on my nerves.

but i was just giving you a hard time for what I thought was a pretty bold statement ;-P not a big deal by any means.

Played a bunch of rounds of Invasion tonight and I have to say it's really a great gametype for taking advantage of the different armors but once the Elites start using the swords it can often get a little out of hand.
my biggest gripe about Invasion is that out of all the games, not once did I see the Elites win. Not sure if that's just being on a bunch of good teams but it seemed a little unbalanced.

Still, boneyard is one of the best Halo maps I've played in a long time. Nice and very interesting to play Halo on such an open huge map.

In reply to

[quote=GriftGFX]That's why they play oddball all the time in MLG I guess? :P

And hey, I love Halo CTF and Assault, I just think that they're poor compared to other attack/defend games. Hell, the scoring in Halo has never really made much sense to me. I hate the fact that public games can so easily end in a tie, or worse, can force you to play rounds on the losing side that are absolutely futile (because you literally can't win). And honestly, I think it's pretty objectively correct to say that something like three-plot pails in comparison to conquest. Bad Company 2 is a great game, but I can see how one might get tired of it. It has a [i]lot[/i] of its own issues, and while it actually has more variety in gameplay than pretty much anything else out there (all contained in two game modes!), I feel the same strain. I can't wait for, and hope that noobs don't ruin, Battlefield 3.

When aren't we talking about our personal taste? I don't need to qualify every opinion as an opinion when it's obvious that's what it is. The best objective modes in Halo are CTF and Assault. Oh no! I did it again![/quote]

we are always talking about personal taste, it's just that quite often we get carried away w/ our own opinion, which is almost always far less qualified than we act like it is :-)

it's just in the manner of how ppl present their opinion though. I'm FAR from perfect, but i TRY to use phrases like "i prefer" or i use the old fav IMO more often then necessary just to make the point, but again, it's hard to convey that all the time i know perfectly well.

It's just that many ppl say things with a sense of objective truth that just gets on my nerves.

but i was just giving you a hard time for what I thought was a pretty bold statement ;-P  not a big deal by any means.

Played a bunch of rounds of Invasion tonight and I have to say it's really a great gametype for taking advantage of the different armors but once the Elites start using the swords it can often get a little out of hand.
my biggest gripe about Invasion is that out of all the games, not once did I see the Elites win. Not sure if that's just being on a bunch of good teams but it seemed a little unbalanced.

Still, boneyard is one of the best Halo maps I've played in a long time. Nice and very interesting to play Halo on such an open huge map.

Acert93

Since 6980 Days

Everyone I played with tonight agreed Invasion is broken. Besides some bugs the design if poor. Not enough players, too much open space requiring running, and for some reason they start you off with some pretty lame weapons that do not fit the large open map. And of course it isn't quite open (junk yardish) with minimal vehicles.

One thing we talked about tonight is that every gun in Halo 3 had a role where it excelled and was either difficult, non-ideal, or non-functional outside that role. The Reach beta really hasn't found that balance. The AR is pretty worthless; the range is limited but once you get into range you can close and go for melee anyhow. And for some reason Bungie has maps like Power House where there the map is quite large.

There are a lot of niggles like this. For the most part the armor abilities are right on, but it really requires a lot of refinement. They better hope they have no more Sword Base maps and get things tightened up. There is a good foundation but a lot of refine. I am just hoping they go away from this bullet-sponge model + worthless weapons. But it is to my advantage as I am owning all the AR players with the pistol ;)

In reply to

Everyone I played with tonight agreed Invasion is broken. Besides some bugs the design if poor. Not enough players, too much open space requiring running, and for some reason they start you off with some pretty lame weapons that do not fit the large open map. And of course it isn't quite open (junk yardish) with minimal vehicles.

One thing we talked about tonight is that every gun in Halo 3 had a role where it excelled and was either difficult, non-ideal, or non-functional outside that role. The Reach beta really hasn't found that balance. The AR is pretty worthless; the range is limited but once you get into range you can close and go for melee anyhow. And for some reason Bungie has maps like Power House where there the map is quite large.

There are a lot of niggles like this. For the most part the armor abilities are right on, but it really requires a lot of refinement. They better hope they have no more Sword Base maps and get things tightened up. There is a good foundation but a lot of refine. I am just hoping they go away from this bullet-sponge model + worthless weapons. But it is to my advantage as I am owning all the AR players with the pistol ;)

Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

Jin187

Since 6753 Days

Nee update, talks about the planned fixes...

http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topne...

This ones for Grift...

Currently in the Beta, when you throw a melee you can almost immediately follow it up with second smack. The end result is that players who’ve gotten the drop on unsuspecting chumps are often penalized if they keep firing and take the fight up close. In the fall, the time delay between melee attacks will be slightly extended. Up close, melee will no longer be a trump card you can play no matter the situation. You will need to use it wisely.

The second issue stems from a larger than ideal melee contest window that allows two players to strike simultaneously – something our sandbox guys call “clang.” The end result? The double melee.

Without getting all technical, let’s just say the fix will result in fewer instances of both players landing killing blows at the “exact same time,” which will reduce both the amount of simultaneous melee deaths you experience and the amount of times players can appear to mistime a melee and still be rewarded with a clean kill.

Fixed for fall.

In reply to

Nee update, talks about the planned fixes...

http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=BWU_050710

This ones for Grift...

[quote]Currently in the Beta, when you throw a melee you can almost immediately follow it up with second smack. The end result is that players who’ve gotten the drop on unsuspecting chumps are often penalized if they keep firing and take the fight up close. In the fall, the time delay between melee attacks will be slightly extended. Up close, melee will no longer be a trump card you can play no matter the situation. You will need to use it wisely.

The second issue stems from a larger than ideal melee contest window that allows two players to strike simultaneously – something our sandbox guys call “clang.” The end result? The double melee.

Without getting all technical, let’s just say the fix will result in fewer instances of both players landing killing blows at the “exact same time,” which will reduce both the amount of simultaneous melee deaths you experience and the amount of times players can appear to mistime a melee and still be rewarded with a clean kill.

Fixed for fall.
[/quote]

Since 7009 Days

It's good that they're on top of this stuff, but I hope they're not just ignoring how weak some of the weapons are in favor of making melee weaker.

Played some Invasion last night at a buddies. I dig it. It has issues but I see a lot of potential. It's the best new mode we've played at least. Invasion Slayer is pretty cool too.

In reply to