BTW, even when Forza's physics are great and the game itself is nicely simulated, it's quite forgiving when you think about it. That's why I once said the game is still far from being something as hardcore as GTR. Damage does not affect aerodynamics for example. And I'm not complaining, but just saying what we are getting is not the physics god Greenawalt talks about and what many believe. And I'm not complaining, I like it that way for now, just saying there's room for improvement.

And I'm surprised PR still brings up the "photoreal graphics".

" With authentic simulation physics, bone-jarring damage, photo-realistic graphics, and licensed tuning and customization options"

For those of you who love the game's graphics, what do you make of that? Yes? No? Really?

I believe we soooooooooo freaking far from that. Both, PGR3 and FM2 are very far from that. The closest thing is PGR3 during photomode where people can make slight adjustments. That brings me to photomode comparisons. Will there be Forza 2 photomode pics close to the realism of PGR3's photomode? That will be interesting to say the least (or not) :D

I want to let it go too, but Optimus brought it up--weird considering he's one of the ones who said "end this", lol. I won't bring it up myself anymore, I'll try my best.
Is there really people who say Halo 2 looks better than Half Life 2? LOL, haha.....how so exactly!?

And I don't like what you said about the wheel........that can't be right. I really would like to play with it. Maybe you can mail me the wheel Phaeton, and I promise I'll mail it back.........mwhahahah.....I hope it works, I did sound very convincing

Interesting point acert about ai and physics (I probably missed it due to your posts sometimes being really long like my last) It probably doesn't affect the GPU cycles, but isn't the CPU an important part of performance too and if certain game related aspects occupy too much CPU power or memory isn't it possible they didn't have that extra power to make it look even better without it dipping below 60fps? I remember at one point Acert you said word for word that the number 1 culprit in 360 game performance problems is the CPU and not the GPU. Maybe they'll be able to use the CPU better next time. I mean I don't care how good or bad a dev turn10 is or how much support they got from Microsoft no developer is getting the most out of the machine on the first go. I mean doesn't the CPU play a vital part in the performance of any game?

I mean afterall forza 2 dipping below 60fps during gameplay would've been disastrous I think don't you guys agree? Far worse than it not meeting my or anyone elses graphical expectations infact. I didn't say PGR4 wouldn't be fun, but that I highly doubt in regards to racing it would be more fun than Forza 2, but my opinion isn't by any means absolute and I know people hate sims so of course many will like PGR4 a lot more, but I didn't take anyone that posts in this thread to be one of those people that like PGR more than Forza.

Lebato for example forza is all he talked about at one point so I highly doubt if even he finds PGR3 more appealing than Forza 2, but I'm just going on past comments from Lebato which may or may not be the way he feels currently. I like PGR3 a lot, but I've started getting tired of it lately and after playing the Forza 2 demo PGR3 seems a bit lacking in comparison. I'm still buying PGR4 even if it isn't a better racer than Forza 2 and I understand it isn't suppose to be, but as such I just think Forza 2 HAS to get something for being twice the framerate and running that impressive physics system with damage modeling and the 60fps reflectionis that would be so much better shown off IF there was no aliasing.

I understand they are different, but certains have to be taken into consideration. Then again I suppose the problem lies with people expecting Forza 2 to totally mop the floor with PGR3 which admittedly didn't happen. I do believe forza 2 looks better overall, but it doesn't mop the floor with it as the developers led us to believe so I guess thats what you guys are getting at, but I think the difficulty in getting power from the machine on the first go is being underestimated. Some are better than others.

And yea Phaethon is right, I didn't intend to bash PGR3, but I just wanted to point some things out, but I'll let it end here, but I wouldn't mind a follow up to my comment regarding the cpu though as I thought the cpu played an important role. Yea lebato I did say i'd stop, but its something I felt I had to mention =P Anyway no big atleast we aren't cursing at eachother right? :D

lol just noticed that mass effect > blue dragon jab damn you :D

If I really really had to choose one franchise, I would choose Forza, but I don't have to :D

Yea you're right. Probably stupid that we've been pitting the 2 franchises against eachother and I'm to blame for bringing it up the last time so my fault there.

Hehe I think the dead or alive versus virtua fighter ones were a bit more civilized. People said their piece on virtua fighter then that was the end of it, but the forza 2 threads are legendary =P

Ultimately I'll settle on I like how forza 2 looks except for the jaggies (even if my adjusting some settings on my hdtv minimized it a great deal) and I wouldn't mind more 3D grass and turn 10 probably wasn't able to get as much outta the 360 this time and should be able to do more next time.

Also most surprisingly, since I didn't find it to be such a big deal before... after playing the forza 2 demo and seeing how much I really like it I now actually wish we had those extra 4 cars I didn't care about them taking them out earlier on. Lebato made quite the issue about it and I didn't think it was that big a deal then, but now that I love the game as much as I do I wish there were more cars to mess around with, but maybe next time I guess :D

Still a year away... but I figured with all the comparisons :) I'd be the first to throw out the Race Drive One vs. Forza2.

About Race Driver One:

Race Driver One will be a true evolution for the series, which first appeared as the TOCA (DTM/V8) Touring Car games (1997–2000) and became the TOCA (DTM/V8) Race Driver series (2002-2006). Taking the series from ultimate racing simulation to ultimate racing stimulation, Race Driver One will be the next technical showcase for Neon, the studio’s proprietary middleware system that is already driving Colin McRae: DIRT in incredible detail.

Challenging players to become the number one race driver in a new world of exhilarating motorsport, Race Driver One will take players on a tour like never before; to beautifully realized racing locations through Europe, the U.S., Japan and beyond. The game will feature the widest range of events in the series, combining official circuit-based championships with road races and urban street competitions.

Gavin Raeburn, Executive Producer, Codemasters Studios said, “As each generation of gaming formats shifts up a gear, so does this series and Race Driver One is set to evolve the previously headlined TOCA (DTM/V8) titles as much as DIRT has the Colin McRae series.”

Race Driver One will release in 2008 for leading console platforms and PC.


No screenshots of Race Driver One, and probably not for a while, but we can speculate and base theories on what it might be capable of, knowing the Race Driver one will use the NEON engine, that Colin McRae DIRT is using (and looks pretty good by the way)

Also how the Toca series looked and compared to Forza1 on the original Xbox.

Comparisons & Speculations... begin.

Nurburgring track in FM2 is beating crap out of the same track in PGR3. :D

Not sure if i reading what your saying correctly but, I find it hard VERY hard to believe that you seem to be trying to suggest that a game that has a much higher CPU usage has no effect on the overall graphics performance????????Yep, nurb looks MILES better in Forza 2 than PGR3, but then again, NYC looks miles better in PGR3 than it does in Forza 2 :)And i am one of them, it certainly doesnt look better in terms of actual graphics, it looks better in terms of art style, for me its far more appealing

When it comes to art direction Half Life 2 is second to none and it looks (overall) miles better than Halo 2.
Scarface - you should be surprised what Rare made with Conker then.

Damage has affected the aero dynamics of the car since Forza 1 only in simulation damage mode, the demo isnt in simulation mode so u cant tell, but if it was in the first one, its gonna be in the 2nd.

Uh? Really? Can you show me a video or tell me how I can try this out?

What is the cheat code for it?

Its simple, go on the test track oval, on simulation mode, with any car, get to its top speed note it down, then give the car some body damage, then try it again to its top speed, you'll see the difference.

haha, NO, just NO.

That's not it man. When you do body damage, you also do transmission damage and what not to the car, in Forza 1 the car is told to go only to certain speed if damage is such and such.

You'd have to play GTR2 to understand how body damage affects aerodynamics. Let's put it simply this way;

What happens when you lose a spoiler in FM? Nothing.

What happens when you lose a spoiler in GTR? You are pretty much destined to crash, even on a straight line, it feels like something is missing.

What happens when your front bumper bends in Forza 1? Does it affect turning? NOT!

What happens when your front bumper gets damaged in GTR? You either take it VERY slow on that turn, or your car will simply not turn and you'll crash. So no, Forza 1 does not calculate aerodynamics based on damage.

Again, give me cheat code if I'm wrong.

There is no simulation damage in the forza 2 demo.

So the only damage that happens is cosmetic currently. In the full game damage will actually affect your car in this demo it doesn't.