I know, and I'm pretty confident those aren't the easiest ones.

Anyway, the full achievement list of Forza 2:

http://www.achieve360points.com/game/forzamotorspo...

haha just recently tried pgr3 out again and man these games are so totally different :D

Didn't know how much more response Forza 2 was control wise. Its like the slightest movement of the left analog stick makes something happen in forza 2, but in pgr3 there is actually a delay there it isn't as responsive. I can notice the difference due to how much I've been playing forza 2.

I also don't get nearly the same satisfaction coming into a turn dropping a gear then hitting the breaks then doing my best to control the car as I do in Forza 2. In PGR3 it actually feels like I'm driving a big chunk of metal with no special nuances or characteristics. Atleast not as many as there are in Forza 2. Pretty much the extra challenge forza 2 gives me while racing makes me unable to go back to PGR3 again.

I hope in PGR4 they work on the responsiveness and atleast tweak the driving some so its more similar to Forza 2 of course not as hardcore, but I'd like there to be some improvements there.

nice one , manual all the way,
here is a vid i made (reply) the 911 porsche 911, no assists manual gear with wheel
(excuse crappy qual ..its yotue after all)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WN7ynQczsss

hahah, and you are comparing an arcade game to a simulation. Aside from graphics, I can't find anything else to compare this games on. I can definetely go back to PGR3 and at the same time be on FM2 since they are so different. You can't because they are so different? Hmn..........

@carb, what is that video showing us?

hahahahaha,.........oh man, too funny. And I won't bother to explain. Here's a video of the Porsche in R class. (not me)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nH__57xXXw

You got a point CARB, running a perfect lap with manual and no assists is not easy and is great to watch (especially when its your own:).

I think this is a different game with assists off. Feels almost like PGR3 with them on. The game should force you to have them off in later races and definitely reward you. Cant wait to get this game with the wheel. We need to set up some online xboxyde races in june me thinks.

anyone else find R class cars so much more fun to race than A or C? I wasn't really into R cars in other games like PGR3 or GT.

Yes, I don't know if you read my posts way back there, but yeah, I also said R>>>>>>all.

The cars in lower classes are nice, but with no tuning and no customization, they feel pretty weak/not yours. And then R class cars sound amazing :)

yeah i'll go read them. Was at uni so had to wait till today to play it:)

true, they need customising, plus didn't like any of the C class cars in the demo. In the first forza i bought a 206 and a Golf and used them through the entire carreer. This time round i see my self saving for the Ferrari Marranello GTS. Love that car:)

The assists don't necessarily change the physics, so I agree that even with assists on, the game doesn't feel like PGR. The car still moves as realistically as it does with assists on, but they are way more annoying than anything else and do prevent from showing the best of the game's physics.

I find it really annoying when you press the gas all the way and the car simply does nothing you know, what's the point!?

The only assists that I find somewhat acceptable to use is ABS.

I use none and like you said, once you manage to get it right, you'll be faster than those driving with assists.

absolutely. Try drifting in Forza2. do you know what the best car is for drifting? Had a pretty good go with the TVR but it's so difficult to stay on the track.

Seen some vids of the wheel. seems like a cm or 2 of movement gives no response at all. is that the case? how do you find the sensitivity?

The TVR Sagaris is by far my favourite for drifting and races, its just like the real one "Not for the faint hearted". Seriously once you get it right, it feels like a dream and is one of the fastest A class cars around the track.Yup It sure does, theres quite a few other wheel tunning options too, i had a screenshot of the options somewhere but cant seem to find it :(

"Aside from graphics, I can't find anything else to compare this games on."

And why is that exactly Lebato? To be completely honest aside from the cool cockpit view Forza 2 is the overall better looking game of the 2 and its pretty obvious. Both games do some drastically different things and as these things also cost system resources they should be factored into the equation too. Funny nobody ever thought the PGR3, Forza 2 comparisons were bad before. You can't compare 2 games graphically without taking into consideration what the games are doing on the gameplay side of things.

For example on the nurburgring in PGR3 look at that grass... its a very bad texture and the trees don't look quite as good as the ones in forza 2. In Forza 2 even in areas where there isn't that much 3D grass the texture they use to immitate grass in forza 2 looks SIGNIFICANTLY better than what is used in PGR3 and that isn't something I think nobody here can deny if they actually look. Not only the grass, but if you look at the trees as well the trees in Forza 2 look much better and Forza 2 has much better reflections on the vehicle than PGR3 does.

I think if we can compare them graphically we should be able to compare what both games do as well. The aliasing is the biggest problem in forza 2, but even so overall Forza 2 beats PGR3 out visually and with a superior physics system, twice the fps, a lot of damage modeling and actually running at a 720p resolution, with superior reflections. PGR3 is a nice game, but compared directly with Forza 2 its obvious weaknesses really become more apparent. I actually prefer the lighting in Forza 2 more it may not be as intense, but I like it more seems better to me and as turn10 said they were going for different artistic looks for each track and seeing as how there are a number of tracks that attest to this being true I don't mind every track having some intensely bright lighting. I think its just right and its use is more subtle.

Even with assists the controls in PGR3 are much more forgiving its still night and day between it and forza 2. Also Grift the image most definitely isn't too dark. I can still see everything in the environment, but it actually helps in noticing more of the detail in the game as the brighter it is the more washed out things will look. When you adjust it you see the detail that goes unappreciated usually.

Well I AM speaking from just one track, but I think the Forza 2 skybox beats PGR3s pretty badly. Things I would give PGR3 over Forza 2 are the fact that when you go from a really dark area to a brigther area the sense of coming back into the light is more striking in PGR3, but again I didn't get such a chance in Forza 2 seeing as how we got this one track, but that is something I'll give PGR3. Another thing is obviously the in car view is amazing, but I actually like the car models in Forza 2 better especially the look of the shaders.

Pretty much Forza 2 doesn't have an issue with environment textures from what I see on this first track. The road looks good nothing wrong there, the grass texture looks nice and detailed even the non grass texture parts of the floor looks better in forza 2 than the stuff shown in PGR3. All in all Forza 2 is a much more attractive looking game from my perspective while running on my HDTV so as far as I'm concerned it is the best looking and playing racer on the platform I don't care if PGR3 is an arcade game the moment people started making the comparisons PGR3's gameplay and other areas were open for criticism and not just its graphics.

I like PGR3 and i'm looking forward to PGR4, but the chances of it being a more fun racer than forza 2 are slim so its essentially the game for the racing fan that likes his game to look as pretty as possible at the expense of the core racing experience.

@Optimus, you know what I think of FM2's and PGR3 graphics. I do consider what the games are doing in terms of gameplay when comparing graphics, and no, it's not the massive differences many of you want to make it seem. No one will ever get to really answer me how Forza 1 managed to look "better" (according to people here) than PGR2.....no one it seems.

Grass looks better in FM2 yes, I agree and only on this do I agree. What worries me in Forza 2 is how come the replays, which are 30fps have frame drops below the 30 line? Couldn't handle the blur? There's also quite a bit of pop-in during replays, this happens when there's a camera change. What's up with that?

And don't get me wrong, I know PGR3 also has some pop-ins and a drop of frame here and there during replays, but I really REALLY don't understand what the big deal is with FM2's graphics, not one bit.

And I don't get you, you say you can't go back to PGR3 when you obviously know the games are much different and both have different satisfactions in terms of gameplay. You either really do like a game or you don't. If you can't go back to PGR3 because of Forza, you really never liked PGR3 to begin with.

I like PGR for its incredible in-car camera, tracks/cities, easy and fun driving......drifting all over the place yet still not look extremely stupid as in Ridge Racer which basically puts you on rail mode and they call it drifting.

I like FM because of its great physics, great AI, and car sounds.

Those are the main ones for both, let's call them the core qualities.

Since you were one of the first to bring the apple/oranges thing here, in regards of gameplay, you are you saying you no longer like oranges because you got a taste of apples? *scratches head*

I love oranges and apples. Even when that apple is really REALLY juicy, I still like the taste of oranges.

Totally agree.