http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7590/volvo240gl...

This screen just SCREAMS epic lmfao

Someone do me a favor, i need some images of the Ford escort RS 2000

Epic Car Boot sale!

8? was not expecting that, didn't Forza3 get a 9.5 from them?

It is telling you something, especially when you take that power and apply it on a turn, it shouldn't be handling like it does in Forza 3. You're assuming what I said includes the proper way to drive. Even a 1000+hp car can turn without oversteer if you go down to the proper speeds on the right tires, but even then if you apply the amount of throttle during a turn like you do in F3 in a car with this hp, the tail should be breaking loose, and I'm not talking about just a drift. At this stage a short counter steer shouldn't be able to fix everything, and neither should braking prevent a complete spin out.

There's a noticeable amount of grip and permanent steering assist compared to Forza 2, and for a game claiming to simulate realistic physics, it is too much.

Sounds like my posts hurt you bad! Dont worry though, i wont post anymore as i've made my point about the sheer inconsistency of the game.Problem is though, he genuinely meant every word and hes not the only one.Ever heard of "Downforce"? Its what makes car stick to the road at speed and is the main reason F1 cars can corner at ridiculous speeds without spinning out. The Zonda R is a super light weight race car that generates incredible amounts of downforce, then add to that the fact that it has insanely wide slick tyres at the rear, a wonderfully crafted chassis and you have a car that really should be sticking to the road when cornering at speed. Drive the Speed Twelve if you want a challenge, better yet, tune your S2000 to 750hp and see how "easy" that is to drive.The prevention of a spin out comes down to reaction time, if you can countersteer quickly enough (with a bit of skill), you can get out of spinouts most of the time. Ever been out of a track day and driven some truly high performance cars? They are not difficult to drive, they have generally have incredible cornering performance with loads of grip compared with normal cars and at times they make you think... "how on earth did this car take that corner at that speed without spinning out" but then you realise that they are called high performance cars for a reason.

Anyway, GT5 may indeed have the best physics out there, but all i'm trying to say is that stuff like this... "Personally, I think the physics are the best as far as console sim racers go. I drove the Zonda R in both games and it's considerably easier to control in Forza 3." ...means absolutely nothing because theres a ton other things to consider when judging a racing game's phyisics. I want to know stuff like.... Can you steer when wheels are locked? Does tire temperature have a affect on the handling? Does brake disc temperature have a affect on the braking efficiency? Does custom aero have a genuine effect on drag? Can you feel when your car is loosing traction? Do the tuning setups have a realistic effect on the cars performance? etc... Also, RWD cars used to have ridiculous amounts of understeer and 4WD cars still spun out spontaneously, is it still present?

http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/gran-turismo-5/critic-reviews

85 is a low score for high budget game. Wonder if this is going to effect sales.

Typical fanboy fodder. Sounds to me like you're trying to find an easy way out of a rebuttal.Except if you push the cars as hard as you do in Forza 3 in real life, counter steering shouldn't fix everything. Why do think race drivers decelerate to the proper speeds and let the momentum aid the turning, then accelerate out? Because applying that power during a turn would be idiotic since they know at that stage no amount of counter steering is going to save you. Funny thing is, I can do this with some of the high-end cars in F3, and the worst that's happened is a short drift and all I need to do is simply counter steer or brake to prevent a spinout. No, that doesn't happen. Not when you have a 750hp car and applying that amount of throttle during a corner. As a result, the cars have too much grip to prevent any kind of realistic depiction of how cars should handle around turns. It's not like I'm saying Forza 3 is incredibly easy either, but it's a step back from Forza 2's physics model.I was giving a general opinion on the physics. The "tons of other things" ultimately determine how the cars feel and react, does it not? If you were so concerned about the specifics, go play the game.Ultimately, just about everything you listed can be captured in a racing game and the cars can still feel and handle like shit without a good driving model. Go play NFS Shift. It models tire wear, tire temps, tire deformation, aero mods, etc. and the driving is still unrealistic. Don't expect everyone who's played GT5 to diagnose the whole physics down for you when it doesn't even seem like you hold a lick of interest in the game anyway. And even if they did, you're never going to know how the driving feels until you've actually played it.

Yup your right, standard cars look amazing and this game is incredibly consistent.Depends on that the type of corner, your right if were talking about chicanes, but for any other type of corner, thats probably the most inefficient way to take it; if you dont apply any sort of power to the wheels during cornering expect lots of understeer and slow lap times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPd0ATqvoJM (Theres a few quick **impossible** counter steers in there too!)Why, because its "easier"?Good idea :)

Just dropped to 84 because Giant Bomb just gave it 6/10 ouch!!

However, i dont think it will have that much affect on the sales because from what i can tell, there's some really good core gameplay hidden beneath the crappy decisions.

They look better than what you make them out to be. I never said they look amazing, but they sure as hell don't look as bad as you think.Looks like he's doing what I said. Decelerating to the proper speed, then accelerating once out. It's not like I said you take the foot off the gas pedal on turns; you notice he's maintaining a constant speed even on the harder corners. Let's see him apply the amount of throttle on one of those sharper turns like in F3 and see if he can control it by simply counter steering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtQT9mE2avE&feature... and the car's almost at full throttle when the tail is loose, in a 750hp car in 3rd gear. lolNope, because it's less realistic.

I didnt make them out to be anything, its not like i designed my own version of the car and said "This is what GT5 looks like". Those pics were taking from the game itself, obviously they dont all look that bad as that would show some sign consistency.Watch it again, he accelerates during most turns. Here's a basic equation for you...

Increased speed = increased downforce = increased traction = increased grip = improved coneringErr... thats pretty much what you said... "Why do think race drivers decelerate to the proper speeds and let the momentum aid the turning, then accelerate out? Because applying that power during a turn would be idiotic"So how do you think hes maintaining a consant speed without applying power??I'm sure he could if he was trying to get kudos points for drifting. The base of your comment stems from what you "Think" should happen, have a look at what actually happens in reality...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv9g3t9rDf8&feature... "and the car's almost at full throttle when the tail is loose" in a 700hp car.And that marks the end of our discussion.

This video shows the superiority of GT5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ET4K3Njn64

Reviews and sales are just for stats and sales wise it is going to be pretty good anyways. I do not understand what some reviews were thinking TBH. I think they should release GT6 by 2012 and will be more polished with more premium cars, tracks keep supporting GT5 for 1 year or so. It seems thrustmaster new racing wheel is going to be official GT wheel soon

Yeah, this one too :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0qqocUWih0
Seriously, I don't want to bash the game but what a BS statement filled with Hyperbole. This is a reality that some people are just unwilling to grasp. Lets finally get away from this riddiculous graphics shit...

Your "consistency" comments were always about standard vs premium, not standard vs standard, and it was about people being "acceptable" with the standard cars.

Many standard cars don't look as crappy as the pics you always post. During a race, it's actually hard to notice which is standard until you get into photomode. That was my point. Didn't think I'd have to spell it out for you.

Would it be much better if all cars were consistent? Sure. You just have to make peace with what it is. Just like with the weird inconsistent lighting in the Forza games, which you seem to be totally fine with.Uhh, the speed is pretty constant throughout most of the turns. Obviously you're not going to need to slow down as much on every corner.

And those light feather throttles he's doing on the turns isn't "applying that amount of power during a turn," which would mean he'd be pushing it just about all the way.Whatever the case is, he's not going to fix that amount of oversteer by doing what's in the forza video. Applying the throttle just about all the way going at 130km/hr during a slip in third gear and countersteering doesn't fix it. What "should" have happened in the game and what happens in reality are the same in this case, so that comment of yours had no bearing on anything. If you think this is remotely realistic then you obviously have low standards for Forza's physics.That video didn't show jack. First, he's only in first gear judging by how fast he's going, which already has no relation to the conditions in the forza vid. Secondly, the car barely even broke loose. You can still see a considerable amount of traction even when he's flooring it on the straight; heck, he barely even needs to turn the wheel. Way to prove nothing.Yup, I see where you're coming from now. It's okay for you that devs put in permanent assists instead of making it optional for a simulation game to appeal more to casuals. I guess you don't care about that since you're more concerned about the consistency of cars.

Bullshit, I can tell those suckers, they stick out like a sore thumb.

Anyways, I've gotten gold in all of the first two license tests. There's one test with a 370z on the third set of license tests on the Daytona circuit, so freaking hard. I'm calling it not doable for now, I need to chop 2 tents on a car like, with those turns? Fuck, that's ridiculous. I do see improvements in physics, though, but we'll leave that for later.

Other than that, you've gotta hate the boiling shadows. They look horrible, it's good they have them, but man, are they fucking ugly or what. Ruin lots as far as graphics. Sound is damn pathetic. I know people joke/d about GT cars sounding like vacuums, but I'm just getting the full effect here. Seriously bad sounds with a couple of good ones here and there. And what's with the crashing sounds?

When it comes to bad design decisions, to mention one that I see as much is the license tests with other cars involved. Those are not even races, those are freaking obstacles courses, and for the most part, that's how races feel thus far. The AI is so incredibly stupid and boring they will brake coming out of a turn just for the hell of it, so you can fail the license test by either touching them ever so slightly or crashing into a wall. Most of the time I'm looking at the car in front of me, just waiting for their brake lights to turn on so I can get the hell out of the way and brake two seconds later when it's actually necessary.

Also, not even the framerate is stable. I've seen it dip lots of times in races. And you've gotta hate the look of the tracks, I don't know what they were thinking really. Put a PS2 level texture that barely resembles a group of trees on top of the tunnel entrance and call it a day. Put two flat surfaces together and call it a tree, make clones of them and put them all right next to each other and there is a good line of perfectly cloned trees, that's sure to look natural. Enough tree talk, let's talk about sharp angles. Everything from the track surface (look at turns) to hills, to railings, all of them have sharp ugly looking angles. Top this with some super low resolution textures for almost everything, a standard care here and there, weird shadows, and a jagged look overall and you get a not so impressive looking game anymore.

I'll try to keep it to the positives for my next post, because there are positives, and overall I'm liking it.

6? wow!

Still not played it lol, this is the longest a game has been on my shelf with out me touching it..

Anyone here playing GT5?
I'm level 17. I really like some stuff, but seriously, I haven't been so pissed off at any game in recent memory. Some design decisions are downright retarded, some things are downright broken, some are just ugly as fuck, etc. VW mini bus at top gear track? AI? Track looks...?

Some of the good stuff are obviously the driving itself--yep, even though it's laughable at times (will expand later).

The AI stinks, eh? After playing GRID, most AI pale in comparison.
I tried playing Shift the other day, and aside from it not being very fun in general, the AI was pretty lousy.

Once in a while though they'd get pretty aggressive, as if they were actually pissed off at you.

5+ million sales. the answer would be "no"

gow_fan is also wrong on the metacritic score, its not 85% it's 84% ;)

Wasn't that 5 million shipped? Not sure, but that's what I heard( don't really care either way though). Still haven't played the game outside of the demo's @ best buy though. I've got to admit that the whole GT5 "story" is massively interesting to me. Don't know why.
@ Plumbdrumb- I was playing the "other" sim the other day and was really enjoying the AI there. It's neat that I'm starting to notice some of the AI drivers based on their driving personalities. I was battling it out hard with one driver over a series of races. He was dick, and while the others were respectful racers for the most part, this guy had it in for me. Must have nudged him a few times on accident, lol...

Lol, this thread has gone awfully quite post launch, where abcgamer when you need him :)

Anyway, i havent got a chance to properly play it yet, maybe over christmas."Shipped" is very different to "Sold" and estimates suggest its not anywhere near that number but it is doing pretty well.

the reports all say "sold" so i'll believe those thank you very much. either way, it's selling better then most other sony exclusives despite it's "faults". which means the reviews havnt really effected sales at all.