Modern Warfare 2 Thread - New Awesome Launch Trailer! - Main forum

Inscrit depuis 7589 Jours

Posté par Ronsauce

Jeez...could your post have been any more condescending towards console gamers...

I'm sorry, but it's a commonly known fact that consolegamers have lower standards when it comes to online FPS gaming, or online gaming in general then PC gamers.. The fact that many here aswell tell me to stop complaining, and how MW2 on their Xbox 360 or PS3 is so great again proofs it.. It's nothing personal, but the situation pisses me off because now it also seriously affects the PC version..

What's in this review makes my point: http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/pc/games/158267.Call-o...

It's the part of PC gamers being ok with FPS games also being on the consoles.. I also was ok with FPS games also being on the consoles, aslong as the PC version kept doing what was to be expected (free open online, and tweakable experience).. But now that they have dumbed down the PC version to consolestandards, they've done it.. It's so sad.. And I wouldn't be surprised if they pushed it even further and started charging for DLC on PC aswell.. Pay 15 bucks for a 4 map mappack or something, the money milking that's so normal on the consoles aswell.. I wouldn't be surprised if they really tried.. If you push it, you better do it all the way!

CoD:MW2 online on PC failed just as hard as Forza Motorsport 3's online did.. Same issue, they took away online standards and put a crappy no-choice matchmaking system in place..

They might aswell stop releasing alltogether tbh, if they aren't willing to keep up the standards.. FM3 online is a failure (only 600 people online at any given time), and so will CoD:MW2 online on PC be aswell (especially in the long run)..

En réponse à

[quote=Ronsauce]Jeez...could your post have been any more condescending towards console gamers...[/quote]
I'm sorry, but it's a commonly known fact that consolegamers have lower standards when it comes to online FPS gaming, or online gaming in general then PC gamers.. The fact that many here aswell tell me to stop complaining, and how MW2 on their Xbox 360 or PS3 is so great again proofs it.. It's nothing personal, but the situation pisses me off because now it also seriously affects the PC version..

What's in this review makes my point: http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/pc/games/158267.Call-of-Duty-Modern-Warfare-2/reviews/134131.Call-of-Duty-Modern-Warfare-2/

It's the part of PC gamers being ok with FPS games also being on the consoles.. I also was ok with FPS games also being on the consoles, aslong as the PC version kept doing what was to be expected (free open online, and tweakable experience).. But now that they have dumbed down the PC version to consolestandards, they've done it.. It's so sad.. And I wouldn't be surprised if they pushed it even further and started charging for DLC on PC aswell.. Pay 15 bucks for a 4 map mappack or something, the money milking that's so normal on the consoles aswell.. I wouldn't be surprised if they really tried.. If you push it, you better do it all the way!

CoD:MW2 online on PC failed just as hard as Forza Motorsport 3's online did.. Same issue, they took away online standards and put a crappy no-choice matchmaking system in place..

They might aswell stop releasing alltogether tbh, if they aren't willing to keep up the standards.. FM3 online is a failure (only 600 people online at any given time), and so will CoD:MW2 online on PC be aswell (especially in the long run)..

http://www.cyberwarriors.nl
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blmbox

Inscrit depuis 6282 Jours

I've had my first taste of MW2 this evening: Spec Ops with my mate. Honestly? Frickin' awesome. Seriously.

The sniper missions are the best Spec Ops missions in my opinion, based on what I've played. Communication is key, that's for sure.

En réponse à

Ronsauce

Inscrit depuis 6936 Jours

You sound ridiculous. Commonly known fact? The hell? You have absolutely no right to criticize console gamers for enjoying MW2 if you've bought MW2 despite all your complaining. That shit just makes you a fucking hypocrite.

It's the part of PC gamers being ok with FPS games also being on the consoles.. I also was ok with FPS games also being on the consoles

Are you fucking serious? As if PC gamers have any fucking right "being ok" with FPS being on consoles? You've taken being bitter to a whole, new, pathetic level.

I get that you're upset that they gimped the PC version's online. I don't agree with their choice, and as such, I've opted to not buy it unless I can get it used, but it's NOT consoles gamers' fault. If anything, it's PC gamers', like yourself, fault. Deal with it.

En réponse à

Zapp Brannigan: If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

Ronsauce

Inscrit depuis 6936 Jours

Posté par blmbox

I've had my first taste of MW2 this evening: Spec Ops with my mate. Honestly? Frickin' awesome. Seriously.

The sniper missions are the best Spec Ops missions in my opinion, based on what I've played. Communication is key, that's for sure.

Sniper Fi is epic.

En réponse à

Zapp Brannigan: If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

GriftGFX

Inscrit depuis 6951 Jours

Posté par Ronsauce

but it's NOT consoles gamers' fault.

Consumer complacency is a problem on every platform.. console gamers certainly aren't helping much, and since they're the new target audience for everything you see coming out of large publishers, I can understand shifting some of the blame in their direction. At the end of the day, you're absolutely correct in saying that most of the blame in this instance falls on PC users.. especially those who knew the consequences of their decision but purchased the game anyway. It's sorta a little like people who complain about politics and then refuse to get involved in the process.

This is capitalism. Your purchases weigh heavily into how this business operates. If everyone has the same shitty attitude, no changes will ever be beneficial to the consumer. I can totally understand why people fail to act; it's easy to get lured in by hype and to feel like you're missing out; it's easy to say, "my purchase isn't big enough to make a difference," but if people don't start changing their attitudes individually.. well.. it will get a lot worse before it ever gets better.

That said..

LMFAO

En réponse à

[quote=Ronsauce]but it's NOT consoles gamers' fault.[/quote]

Consumer complacency is a problem on every platform.. console gamers certainly aren't helping much, and since they're the new target audience for everything you see coming out of large publishers, I can understand shifting some of the blame in their direction. At the end of the day, you're absolutely correct in saying that [i]most[/i] of the blame in this instance falls on PC users.. especially those who knew the consequences of their decision but purchased the game anyway. It's sorta a little like people who complain about politics and then refuse to get involved in the process.

This is capitalism. Your purchases weigh heavily into how this business operates. If everyone has the same shitty attitude, no changes will ever be beneficial to the consumer. I can totally understand why people fail to act; it's easy to get lured in by hype and to feel like you're missing out; it's easy to say, "my purchase isn't big enough to make a difference," but if people don't start changing their attitudes individually.. well.. it will get a lot worse before it ever gets better.

That said..

[img]http://i35.tinypic.com/v45w05.png[/img]

LMFAO

Acert93

Inscrit depuis 6922 Jours

Posté par TheBeagle

Even I would duck out of console versions if this happened.

Console gamers may have low standards, but they do have standards.

I loved CoD4. I wouldn't pay $5/mo for it. I can barely tolerate Live. Activision is going to push it though--at some point the hungry little guys need to rise up.

En réponse à

Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

Ronsauce

Inscrit depuis 6936 Jours

Posté par GriftGFX

Consumer complacency is a problem on every platform.. console gamers certainly aren't helping much, and since they're the new target audience for everything you see coming out of large publishers, I can understand shifting some of the blame in their direction.

Let's say MW2 wasn't being released for PC at all. As far as console gamers are concerned, they're only getting a better version of the MP that was in MW1. I don't see how they can be even remotely blamed for enjoying a fun game that is not gimped relative to what they've been playing. They don't care that the PC version has been gimped.

En réponse à

Zapp Brannigan: If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

TheBeagle

Inscrit depuis 6556 Jours

LOL at Grifts picture. Not you Ron. I agree completely.

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Band myspace = http://www.myspace.com/skipcanyon

GriftGFX

Inscrit depuis 6951 Jours

Posté par Ronsauce

Let's say MW2 wasn't being released for PC at all. As far as console gamers are concerned, they're only getting a better version of the MP that was in MW1. I don't see how they can be even remotely blamed for enjoying a fun game that is not gimped relative to what they've been playing. They don't care that the PC version has been gimped.

I don't so much mean that console gamers are to blame directly for Infinity Ward's actions, but they are helping enforce new industry trends which are potentially bad for everyone.

I'm not disagreeing with you here.. I agree that it's hypocritical to shift the blame when there is plenty of direct blame to go around!

En réponse à

Inflatable

Inscrit depuis 7589 Jours

I see, buying the game doesn't give me the right to complain about it.. Well, at least I still buy PC games.. And talking about hypocrites, the real hypocrites are the ones that don't buy but pirate instead.. They are also the ones that really hurt PC gaming the most because they give the industry an excuse to pull stupid stunts like restricting online play etc.. So I really hope you didn't pirate MW2 Ronsauce.. And don't worry, if the next CoD still offers the same online experience I won't buy it anymore.. Not even for 35 euro only for the SP and co-op (which I still enjoy).. And I sure as hell will never buy any premium DLC if they have the guts to release that for the PC version aswell, you really don't have to worry about that..

At least GriftGFX gets the bit about consumer complacency.. And I especially targeted consolegamers because they've put up with the same limited online crap without real protest.. Infact, a lot of them even go as far as defend it (which I can only explain as ignorance or having lower standards) if you say anything bad about it (like I'm doing right now)..

P.s. is that screeny for real? If so, it just as laughable as it's sad..

Posté par Ronsauce

Let's say MW2 wasn't being released for PC at all. As far as console gamers are concerned, they're only getting a better version of the MP that was in MW1. I don't see how they can be even remotely blamed for enjoying a fun game that is not gimped relative to what they've been playing. They don't care that the PC version has been gimped.

Which proofs my point that they don't know any better (ignorance), or they have lower standards/demands.. Otherwise they would demand the same (free and open online) experience that has always been standard on PC..

En réponse à

I see, buying the game doesn't give me the right to complain about it.. Well, at least I still buy PC games.. And talking about hypocrites, the real hypocrites are the ones that don't buy but pirate instead.. They are also the ones that really hurt PC gaming the most because they give the industry an excuse to pull stupid stunts like restricting online play etc.. So I really hope you didn't pirate MW2 Ronsauce.. And don't worry, if the next CoD still offers the same online experience I won't buy it anymore.. Not even for 35 euro only for the SP and co-op (which I still enjoy).. And I sure as hell will never buy any premium DLC if they have the guts to release that for the PC version aswell, you really don't have to worry about that..

At least GriftGFX gets the bit about consumer complacency.. And I especially targeted consolegamers because they've put up with the same limited online crap without real protest.. Infact, a lot of them even go as far as defend it (which I can only explain as ignorance or having lower standards) if you say anything bad about it (like I'm doing right now)..

P.s. is that screeny for real? If so, it just as laughable as it's sad..

[quote=Ronsauce]
Let's say MW2 wasn't being released for PC at all. As far as console gamers are concerned, they're only getting a better version of the MP that was in MW1. I don't see how they can be even remotely blamed for enjoying a fun game that is [i]not[/i] gimped relative to what they've been playing. They don't care that the PC version has been gimped.[/quote]
Which proofs my point that they don't know any better (ignorance), or they have lower standards/demands.. Otherwise they would demand the same (free and open online) experience that has always been standard on PC..

http://www.cyberwarriors.nl
http://home.xmsnet.nl/bigbear/mycar.jpg

GriftGFX

Inscrit depuis 6951 Jours

Someone from Bash and Slash went into the MW2 MP exe file and came up with these juicy tidbits:

http://bashandslash.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=65&...

The code for dedicated servers, lean, etc. is pretty much all still there!

Here are some examples from the code:

006D9298: 'We suck as host - ending the game',0Ah,0
0071EB98: 'set systemlink 0; set splitscreen 0; set onlinegame 1; exec default_xboxlive.cfg',0
0070573C: 'menu_xboxlive_privatelobby',0
0072A5CC: 'Amount to shift the player 3rd person model when leaning right',0
00787A50: 'Set to false to disable dx allocations (for dedicated server mode)',0
00701580: 'Show dedicated servers only',0
00702558: 'ui_browserShowDedicated',0

In the file, Xbox is mentioned 32 times

Shamelessly stolen from GAF.

I mentioned earlier that you could edit your config file to get a more detailed view of your latency.. but I guess you can even tweak the priorities that the match making uses to find games. If what I'm hearing is correct, you can make it look for lower latency scenarios by editing a single line.. and apparently since the system has trouble finding games to match, it increases the chances that you get to host.. giving you a statistical advantage over default configs--how shitty.

edit: nvm the latter point. IW claims that config changes do not have an actual impact on match making. Perhaps people are just seeing a placebo effect in terms of how often they get to host.

En réponse à

[quote]Someone from Bash and Slash went into the MW2 MP exe file and came up with these juicy tidbits:

http://bashandslash.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=1803&sid=9006a484f8b5f7125bdec51471c2b392

The code for dedicated servers, lean, etc. is pretty much all still there!

Here are some examples from the code:

006D9298: 'We suck as host - ending the game',0Ah,0
0071EB98: 'set systemlink 0; set splitscreen 0; set onlinegame 1; exec default_xboxlive.cfg',0
0070573C: 'menu_xboxlive_privatelobby',0
0072A5CC: 'Amount to shift the player 3rd person model when leaning right',0
00787A50: 'Set to false to disable dx allocations (for dedicated server mode)',0
00701580: 'Show dedicated servers only',0
00702558: 'ui_browserShowDedicated',0

In the file, Xbox is mentioned 32 times[/quote]

Shamelessly stolen from GAF.

I mentioned earlier that you could edit your config file to get a more detailed view of your latency.. but I guess you can even tweak the priorities that the match making uses to find games. If what I'm hearing is correct, you can make it look for lower latency scenarios by editing a single line.. and apparently since the system has trouble finding games to match, it increases the chances that you get to host.. giving you a statistical advantage over default configs--how shitty.

edit: nvm the latter point. IW claims that config changes do not have an actual impact on match making. Perhaps people are just seeing a placebo effect in terms of how often they get to host.

Inflatable

Inscrit depuis 7589 Jours

Look at what I found: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/104/1044965p1.html

I wonder if CoD fans will accept the next step of being milked..

For Xbox 360 this would mean:

1. pay extra for game (to MS)
2. pay extra for online play (to MS)
3. pay extra for DLC (to IW/Activision)
4. pay extra again for online play (to IW/Activision)
5. only P2P online play

Oh joy!

En réponse à

http://www.cyberwarriors.nl
http://home.xmsnet.nl/bigbear/mycar.jpg

GriftGFX

Inscrit depuis 6951 Jours

I posted that already, just from CVG instead :)

It still cracks me up that they put the developer console command in the manual, even though there's no dev console in the game. Way to rub it in, guys.

It also sorta sucks to see the community grasping for a way to unlock dedicated servers. If this happens a lot of new people will buy the game, and they're still supporting the P2P model with their wallets.. despite getting what they want. I can't see myself buying this game with a community fix.. and I also can't see how IW and Valve wouldn't try to get those changes added to VAC, locking out legit copies anyway.

People just don't seem to understand how capitalism works, especially post-supply and demand.

En réponse à

Inflatable

Inscrit depuis 7589 Jours

Ok, didn't know/see that, sorry..

But anyway, reading stuff like that makes me feel even more sick (can't think of another word) about the future state of gaming..

Greedy CEO's and suits (that probably don't give a damn about videogames really) that invaded the gamingindustry aswell now.. How they love to come up with new 'buisinessmodels' to make even more money..

En réponse à

http://www.cyberwarriors.nl
http://home.xmsnet.nl/bigbear/mycar.jpg

GriftGFX

Inscrit depuis 6951 Jours

Posté par SomeDouche

I got to admit, I do play the game, and I did make some of my friends buy it. It's not necessarily because we're giving in, but realizing that a couple of thousand canceled pre-orders won't do much considering they've sold like 7 million copies already (4,7 mill in the US/UK alone).

Such a shit attitude.

En réponse à

Acert93

Inscrit depuis 6922 Jours

Posté par Inflatable

Which proofs my point that they don't know any better (ignorance), or they have lower standards/demands.. Otherwise they would demand the same (free and open online) experience that has always been standard on PC..

Or, subtracting PC elitism, there are 360 / PS3 games with dedicated servers (BFBC, Frontlines, KZ2, Resistance 1/2, Warhawk, etc) and in terms of a total game experience -- not just a check box -- games like Halo, CoD, and Gears have all been better games per the consumer consensus.

People who play on a platform select what is best out there for them, regardless of what another platform may or may not do.

While it would be nice if M2 had dedicated servers on the consoles, MW1 did NOT have them and even without them, while maybe inferior to the PC, was still better than many console games WITH dedicated servers.

That is the problem when people make a game people will play no matter what. Look at WoW. I won't touch the game but what, 15M people pay monthly. Why? Because it has value to them.

I won't pay $15/mo for CoD7. Will some people? Maybe. If IW makes money doing it they will, regardless of my boycott.

The REAL problem is we are not seeing a lot of great MP games to be so picky about whether you want ded servers or not on the consoles. If KZ2 had been a killer app maybe some tunes would change. But until that happens expect the top dogs to bleed blood from rocks.

En réponse à

[quote=Inflatable]Which proofs my point that they don't know any better (ignorance), or they have lower standards/demands.. Otherwise they would demand the same (free and open online) experience that has always been standard on PC..[/quote]

Or, subtracting PC elitism, there are 360 / PS3 games with dedicated servers (BFBC, Frontlines, KZ2, Resistance 1/2, Warhawk, etc) and in terms of a total game experience -- not just a check box -- games like Halo, CoD, and Gears have all been better games per the consumer consensus.

People who play on a platform select what is best out there for them, regardless of what another platform may or may not do.

While it would be nice if M2 had dedicated servers on the consoles, MW1 did NOT have them and even without them, while maybe inferior to the PC, was still better than many console games WITH dedicated servers.

That is the problem when people make a game people will play no matter what. Look at WoW. I won't touch the game but what, 15M people pay monthly. Why? Because it has value to them.

I won't pay $15/mo for CoD7. Will some people? Maybe. If IW makes money doing it they will, regardless of my boycott.

The REAL problem is  we are not seeing a lot of great MP games to be so picky about whether you want ded servers or not on the consoles. If KZ2 had been a killer app maybe some tunes would change. But until that happens expect the top dogs to bleed blood from rocks.

Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

Phaethon360

Inscrit depuis 6797 Jours

Modern Warfare makes CEO $22mil http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/modernwarfare2/n...

En réponse à

Don't you know who I am? I'm the goddamned Banman.

http://couchcampus.com

Viginti_Tres

Inscrit depuis 6453 Jours

Posté par Inflatable

Which proofs my point that they don't know any better (ignorance), or they have lower standards/demands.. Otherwise they would demand the same (free and open online) experience that has always been standard on PC..

In case you don't realize how pathetic that reads I'll tell you: It's fucking pathetic. If you don't like it, then quit. You always have a choice.

There is a market for subscription based online play, MS showed that. And when there is a market corps will try to cash in on it until someone new shows up and changes that. The fact is that we have monopolist like structures in the gaming industry and they will push the changes through that they like. In the end the consumer has little choice, either he gets along or he quits. The decentralized characteristic of the PC platform always ensured a lot of competition. Whenever that's still the case after the big shifts in the recent two years remains to be seen, I doubt it.

Console gamers don't have anything to do with the state of PC gaming. It's the lack of competition, that always has been present on the console market, that causes the PC market to approach the console market.

En réponse à

[quote=Inflatable]

Which proofs my point that they don't know any better (ignorance), or they have lower standards/demands.. Otherwise they would demand the same (free and open online) experience that has always been standard on PC..[/quote]

In case you don't realize how pathetic that reads I'll tell you: It's fucking pathetic. If you don't like it, then quit. You always have a choice.

There is a market for subscription based online play, MS showed that. And when there is a market corps will try to cash in on it until someone new shows up and changes that. The fact is that we have monopolist like structures in the gaming industry and they will push the changes through that they like. In the end the consumer has little choice, either he gets along or he quits. The decentralized characteristic of the PC platform always ensured a lot of competition. Whenever that's still the case after the big shifts in the recent two years remains to be seen, I doubt it.

Console gamers don't have anything to do with the state of PC gaming. It's the lack of competition, that always has been present on the console market, that causes the PC market to approach the console market.

Tomarru

Inscrit depuis 6023 Jours

Um are achievements broken? I had done a number of levels on hardened and got achievements for them, didnt play yesterday then did a couple of levels today, neither of which gave me any achievements.
Anyone had anything similar happen? is there anything i can do to get it to pop my achievements, dont wanna play anymore if it aint gonna register that ive done it.

En réponse à

TheBeagle

Inscrit depuis 6556 Jours

I think on hardened and veteran you only get achievements for beating groups of 3 missions. I could be wrong I haven't checked.

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Band myspace = http://www.myspace.com/skipcanyon

FireWire

Inscrit depuis 6951 Jours

Posté par Inflatable

Which proofs my point that they don't know any better (ignorance), or they have lower standards/demands.. Otherwise they would demand the same (free and open online) experience that has always been standard on PC..

Look Inflatable, I'm a person that enjoys both PC and console games... Ofcourse it's better to have free online play and free dlc like on the PC.. But how the hell should console gamers DEMAND anything?
There's no way in hell that people will not buy a game if they think it's fun or worth the trouble... I don't think there is a way for the gamers to demand anything...

En réponse à

"Though I walk through the valley of death I will fear no evil, for I am the evilest motherf*cker in the valley"

"First come smiles, then comes lies. Last is gunfire"

ManThatYouFear

Inscrit depuis 6894 Jours

Posté par FireWire

I don't think there is a way for the gamers to demand anything...

Even when we voice our concerns they dont care/listen.

En réponse à

I think i have stood in poo

Viginti_Tres

Inscrit depuis 6453 Jours

"Gamers" and "we" are terms often used very loosely. Most of the time it's just the hardcore gamers that would demand anything, the majority isn't as involved as someone who plays a single game for a long period of time. The only way they would "listen" is when their sales get a serious hit over something like an extra subscription for the mp, like Activision is apparently trying to do. If it floats with the majority they'll follow it through.

With the marketing machine behind the CoD games it's hard to believe they won't have any success, tho. Money talks, bullshit walks.

En réponse à

GriftGFX

Inscrit depuis 6951 Jours

Posté par ManThatYouFear

Even when we voice our concerns they dont care/listen.

People will buy anything. You can't just say, "oh hell.. my purchase can't make a difference!" Individual attitudes need to change before you'll ever see consumers empowered.

There's bitching in this thread by the previously informed, who purchased the game anyway. You can't bitch about consumer complacency and then turn around and throw gas on the fire.

It really is that simple.

En réponse à

Acert93

Inscrit depuis 6922 Jours

Do consumers buy for a single feature or a holistic approach to a product's quality?

En réponse à

Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

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