Dreamcast was a different timeline. Probably my favorite console system all time
It was out as PS2 and Gamecube approached

They were the first devs to really take advantage of FPS on console (not to mention split screen), and they helped further pioneer 3d platformers on console too

I'm not saying they're superior to everything on PS1 or PC.

Nintendo always has shit for support but Rare games were always reviewed high and always guaranteed quality experience.

I realize they're shit now. They basically have 0 presence at this point. But if you owned a Nintendo 64 you owned Rare games
They were the best team on the system other than Nintendo themselves.

You can't really argue the impact of Goldeneye or Banjo & Kazooie
Maybe you hated them, but they sold like crazy and people played Goldeneye for years

You make it seem like Goldeneye was the only FPS on a console at the time, which is obviously not the case. I played and enhoyed Disruptor on the PS1 as a kid, it still sucks ass. Even by the standards back then.

I'd argue that Goldeneye had very little impact on FPS in general. It made a big splash on the N64, that's about it. And the genre didn't really boom on console until Halo anyway, so i don't really see the point of trying to sell Goldeneye as something revolutionary. If you want examples of shitty FPS on consoles, there's Doom on the snes, and Zero Tolerance on the Genesis/megadrive a whole generation before.

There are milestones for FPS on console and it certainly goes Goldeneye to Halo to what next I have no idea. COD?

I guess i just have a hard time seeing it as a milestone. What exactly is the legacy of goldeneye, except for it's fanbase?

http://goldeneye.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:TheBlueR...

Says it's the best ewar on a wiki, must be true then.

I mean, he calls the auto aim a good thing. Do i even need to go on? Still, what is this milestone really? Auto aim, 4 player multi player and the bond music is hardly what i'd consider an evolution of the genre. What's next? is C&C on PS1 also the best RTS of all time? Because, you know, it's a milestone in how to play RTS really poorly with a pad? It had the C&C theme music!

Guess i was just busy playing CTF in quake with 9 other people from around the world to have time to be wooed by a game with the 007 theme music and auto aim :P

The difference is that we can see a clear influence on the genre by ID and Wolf 3D. I don't really see the genre taking much inspiration from goldeneye as you know, FPS gaming on PC had basically evolved beyond Goldeneye already.

Also the wikia article Tinks posted calls Goldeneye "one of the best shooter series of all time" so, that's not really on me :P

Yeah, for sure. A good game is a good game, no matter how old it is.

Yeah, if a game ages poorly it just means that it probably wasn't that great to begin with. But i think one can probably be charitable to older games that perhaps aren't so good (like wolf 3D) that still kind of paved the way for greater games (like doom, which by the way is still a lot of fun in spite of it's age). I just have a hard time seeing Goldeneye doing anything even remotely like that.

Well, at least they showed what NOT to do with a controller. Isn't the 5200 joystick the one that's notorious for sucking and failing? :P

After that we all learned that the Tac-2 was the way to go. And everything was good...ok, that's a total lie. After i figured out my Genesis/megadrive controllers totally worked wiht my A500 i kept using those :P

Did either of you even own a Nintendo 64 or were you always pretentious PC exclusive ;)

As i was about what, like 12 at the time i had to choose. And i chose the Playstation. And a good choice it was. Never looked back. Though i did play goldeneye and some of the other N64 classics at the time with friends and on borrowed consoles.

The PS1 definitely had the most games, while not always the best quality at least you never were shorted when it came to quantity and something new

64 dev cycles were brutal, but I always felt the 64 had the better multiplayer. PS1 was great for single player games much like the PS2 was. Sony has always been king of SP in my mind

Like you my friends and I had both systems, but 64 sort of ruled our time with 4 player split and other party type games or Smash, Mario Party, etc

That's sort of why I place Goldeneye so high personally. That game really took hold and everyone was playing it for a number of years. It wasn't just multiplayer either. The earning system was huge and made you play the single player endlessly for all sorts of challenges.
You'd go over to some new kids house and that's what you played to see who was best at it.
We did that with Halo on Xbox 1 (4 systems, 16 people happened even) but never really any other console games. Granted the accessibility with online changed everything.

I generally only think highly of games with long life cycles anymore. I miss days when games could have recognizable regulars because you played it long enough.
It doesn't really happen any longer, though I suppose some of the MMO's qualify these days. I never got into WOW though.

I totally disagree there as well. All the fighters, racing games and arcade stuff that made it to the PS1 it was a great option for 2-player games.

Also how you choose to play games now vs then doesn't really constitute much of an argument either. If you want to dive deep in pretty much any game i can almost promise you that there is a community, large or small, of dedicated speed runners and challenge runners out there. If you want to, you can squeeze endless time out of any game. You don't think it's related to you being a kid back then, and having all the time in the world to play games with your buddies vs today, when you most likely have a lot of other responsibilities to take care of?

Is Dark Souls really a 1000+ hour experience? Not really, but i do speedruns and challenge runs and shit and i've been playing it since release. The community keeps it interesting with events, new info and new crazy challenges.

I guess what it more or less came down to is that there were always more than 2 of us hanging out, so we never really went for 2-player games. I've never really considered 2 player games or co op experiences as MP. I also think 4 player= more fun because there are more friends playing.
It's not a bad thing to be good at SP experiences either. It's part of the reason why I wish I had a PS4 because I dig the idea of getting more quality solo experiences now that I enjoy narratives more.

I don't think it had to do with having more time no, nor me being a kid. The production rate is different now, same with the attention span. Communities die really fast as titles release and there's not enough longetivity anymore. Lots of games don't even get the dev time they need and are pushed out incomplete with the way patches and dlc work. Which also attributes to early deaths.

I never really wanted this subject to branch into PS1 vs 64 vs PC. I guess I put that on everyone else when I used the word 'GENERATION'.
I can appreciate a lot of shit on systems that I played or may have never touched. Like FF7 is considered one of the best rpgs ever made, which I'd never argue otherwise because the opinion is popular enough that I can accept that. I also never played it, plus I know it probably doesn't hold up to todays standards as most games don't.
I do think it's pointless to denounce a game on a system that was arguably one of the best titles on it's platform. Also to denounce a company which was one of the greatest developers on Nintendo systems from SNES till basically the Gamecube.
Feel free to denounce their current state now that they're a shell of themselves however.
I think if they still made quality titles less people would shit on them.

What this really comes down to for me is that "on console" doesn't really constitute an argument. Goldeneye wasn't anything special when compared to othr contemporary FPS games. Sure, maybe it was special "on console", but then that clasifies Street Fighter 2 on tiger electronics as the best fighter ever. Being the best fighter ever on a tiger electronics doesn't mean much.

I still consider Rare fairly mediocre. But as i already said, i just don't even comment on their collect-em-ups straight off because i just loathe the genre in general. But their shooters and fighters were mediocre so far as i'm concerned. Never did play Diddi Kong Racing though.

As for FF7, it just suffers from the same issue as most jRPGs; early to mid teen boys being the main target. Ultimately this means that the story is hamfisted, poorly translated and filled with shitty teenage angst that most people over 25 have gotten past so long ago that it's hard to relate to it anymore. Still has some great music and cool visuals at times. Is DBZ the best thing ever? If yes, FF7 will probably explode your scrote in to space on a rainbow of pure bliss. Adults proclaiming it to be the best thing ever has some serious nostalgia goggles on, or have never seen a movie or read a book that didn't have "shonen" printed on the cover. I feel comfortable stating that as a fact :P

Bottom line; keep nostalgia and quality apart.

You bring up a great point. It does have great music, but no auto aim.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQUP3OpvugI

Quality of Goldeneye and the games we're discussing were high for the time they were released

I think Grift already shot that BS argument out of the water. A good game is a good game, if your game doesn't stand the test of time it probably wasn't that great.

Did you kiss Grift while you wrote that post?

There are VERY few games that ever stand the test of time, it's a flawed counter. Technology is always improving on itself and so are mechanics in games.
Plus people played Goldeneye for YEARS, so it doesn't really apply here. The game was around for a long time and saw remakes on the Wii even, because it was that popular.