You're describing COD4 + promodlive, without the graphical sacrifices. It's not a bad thing to want. People just don't take criticism to games they like very well.

There absolutely should be a stripped playlist in the last three Call of Duty games. Even Halo gets MLG tweaks.

The "core things" in the most popular shooter aren't really half baked ideas stolen from World of Warcraft. The core gameplay of Call of Duty is actually quite good without that stuff.

i.e. You are a Halo fan and want the game just like Halo.

And unlike Grifts comment, I am all for constructive feedback on games, even games I like. This isn't like Grift saying, "Haven't played it, but XYZ options are horrible!" or you, "This isn't like Halo." Things I would change in CoD MW2 are pretty exhaustive.

* Patch Exploits. I don't see a ton but they are out there. They should be dealt with.
* Can the no-Party chat trash.
* Fix party matching. A HUGE shame that this is still a problem at times.
* Retool the play list. A handful of them stink and the lack of real options for HardCore is sad. I really dislike how TDM pits you and a friend against a clan of 6. Since abandoning TDM and going mercenary TDM and other modes the game has become a lot more enjoyable for me.
* More team modes. TDM imo is the worst mode in the game--and almost every shooter. They really need a solid 2v2 and 4v4 mode. The objective gameplay modes in MW are exceptional.
* True Matchmaking. While I get their rank thing it should be like Halo -- a "rank" for competitive play and a secondary "rank" for progress. There are times I would prefer to just play people my same skill level.
* Custom Game Browser. I don't get Bungie or IW. Letting me setup my own room with the options I like would be a GREAT thing.
* Coop in the SP would be killer as would some 4 player Spec Ops.
* Map design (quasi complaint). IW added a bit of verticality this time around. Too many maps seem to be overkill in terms of knowing blind spots, multiple flanking positions, etc. Now, as I have played some with people I know recently + using Claymores this isn't so bad. But playing by yourself as I usually do... ugh. You never really can protect yourself. You need a wingman or two to be really effective (i.e. going off for 5+ kill streaks 2 or 3 times a game). One reason I LOVE Battlefield is I LOVE how the maps are usually just HUGE battlegrounds. MW2 is a tradition shooter--map mastery is major. Before this long weekend I had 20hrs of total online play since the release of the game. This sort of game puts people like me at a disadvantage and there are no playlists catered to people like me (e.g. "Open Battlefields") and no matchmaking.

And those are just things right off the top of my head, so the whole, "People just don't take criticism to games they like very well" misses the point--and that is that your criticism about MW2 was to strip out everything but the gunplay--and even then you still were complaining. Yawn. It reminds me of the discussion yesterday:

Guy Getting Owned: Dude, thanks for shooting down the Helo!!
Me: Do you have a stinger as a secondary?
Guy Getting Owned: No.

The funny thing is that I didn't even need to carry the thing. I started carrying it not because air stuff bothers me (basic military stuff here: use cover, stick close to buildings, etc -- use terrain to your advantage, what cannot see you cannot kill you) but because it helps my team. I roll my eyes at all of you whining about getting owned by air weapons: 1) carry anti air weapons or at least after dieing your THIRD TIME change your freaking class! 2) If they are that bad then CHANGE your strategy and style. Adapt. I honestly think the air weapons are weak.Perks are the RPG-lite part of the game and reward good gamers and smart play. Seeing as this isn't BF with objectives/flag conquests the perks are the thing that separates it from freeforalltdmfragfests spawning in fields and killing/getting killed aimlessly. It sets it into the MW theater of backup and advance weapons. Perks make CoD4 / MW2 unique and as much as some of you hate this what I find is people keep coming back to get that perk, they feel like a carrot is ahead of them in terms of unlocks (BRILLIANT move allowing the gamer to choose what ones to unlock AND what combos they want! BRILLIANT!) as well as ingame. It gets tense when you have 6 kills and need that 7th for a harrier! And the few people I know you complain about them are the first to be hurrahing when they get to call in something.

Anyhow, the perks really do allow you to play the game how YOU want to play it. You don't have to pick 1 of 4 classes and then force it to accomodate a role.

http://www.themodernwarfare2.com/mw2/multiplayer/p...The game gives you perfectly suitable classes out of the gate and the weapons don't get better down the road, just different. I have stuck with the FAMAS with red dot/holo as I find so far I like it better than all the other guns although the FAL is quite nice. Other swear by the M16. To each their own. The fact is things unlock FAST and every gun is lethal.

While I wouldn't mind private servers with everything unlocked the concept of rewarding gamers for playing is nice. And it isn't grinding as everything comes very fast. Sorry you hate this feature--it is one of the most popular aspects of CoD4 and MW2.People love their guns and they love customizing them. It works great as there is no such thing as unbalanced--just design kits for maps and your style and use them (the military do the same thing: right gun for the right job). I have had a blast trying new upgrades and loading out kits for specific maps or scenarios although, oddly, I find I am using the following almost 90% of the time:

Primary: FAMAS w/ Holoscope
Secondary: Stinger
Equip: Claymore
Special: Stun
Slight of Hand + Stopping Power + Steady Aim
Last Stand

Pretty basic, almost like the stock clock. Unlocked very fast and pretty effective.Yeah, for those not getting them they suck, I agree. ;)

As for a game dynamic I can see why people may want them off, but most people I know love them. The fact you can unlock which ones you like and stack them however you like is excellent. Further, if you are just a BAD gamer you can do lower perks and *help you team* Wow, novel concept--get UAVs up, care packages, etc. I am all for choice (Bungie and Turn10 you suck here too guys) and would like to see more games with custom games/browsers so people like you can go with your slimmed down modes. I would personally do more Hardcore--I like more lethal guns and I don't typically like the death cam, although it is nice sometimes.Totally disagree. Pistols can shoot through thin concrete especially at close distances with larger handguns (especially with the right bullets).

Further, look at all those "other" games where you have guns from 500 years from now that cannot shoot through TIN?! Wuuuh?

Penetration is a fact of life. It is the difference between COVER and CONCEALMENT. It adds a lot of gameplay. If you don't like it you probably shouldn't be playing a game called, "Modern Warfare" as it is like complaining about M16s or grenades.I played along until here because I don't think you were being very genuine. My point was you are talking down MW2 to the previous title and I replied tongue in cheek; then it became a "well, I just wanted a couple things stripped" but as this last point shows you pretty much have issues with EVERYTHING less player movement (and even that isn't certain!)

Maps = Bad
Gun Balance = Bad
Wall Penetration = Bad
Modes and Spawns = Bad
Perks = Bad
Customizing Guns = Bad
Kill streaks = Bad

Really what you describe is Counterstrike without weapon purchases.Guns are fine, they are all lethal just like MW1. Use what you like and that fits the map well. Maybe you haven't shot many guns, but at the ranges in MW2 even sub-machine guns are going to be relatively effective. If anything sniping rifles are just out of place in the game and I see no reason for them 95% of the time and it is merely a fact that the (1) in both MW games maps are too small to truly accommodate them and (2) the game, as a balance choice you guys seem to like, is the game is fast, responsive, clean, and crisp in movement. There is deviation but you recover VERY fast and accuracy while moving is high. With this gameplay model (which is fine--works great for the game even if not my favorite as I would be abusive in terms of accuracy--crouched and prone would be far more important than MW1 or 2 ever reward) they just don't fit well. Not horrible but I don't see a use for them personally but then again I can smack a fly across the map with a red dot.

What I have learned with the maps is they really are aimed at this:

MW1 was crazy popular for 2 years. MW2 maps have a lot of vertical dimensions and a lot of areas you must know--you go around the corner check the 3 windows and the wall, stuff like that. MW2 also doesn't have a lot of absolute choke points--you can usually get flanked 2 or 3 ways -- so playing as a TEAM and using Claymores is important.

IW designed a game that rewards people who will be playing 6-18 months from now. Love it, hate it, it wasn't designed to be "easy." Call it unbalanced, what it is is hard. People who play more will know them better. I am still finding places in maps I never saw before!

Yeah, I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to Call of Duty. I don't need to play MW2 to dislike how it was designed, sorry.

I just wanted to tell Jin that the game he's describing exists, and that it's indeed a lot fucking better than Infinity Ward's default configurations for Call of Duty. That's just like, my opinion man. But people like their perks, I get that, and I'm sure they'll keep liking them as long as Activision continues to make Call of Duty. That should be more and more frequently if they do indeed pick up a third developer.

FPS games appeal to different people for different reasons. I'm pretty competitive when it comes to gaming in general, and I see a lot of Infinity Ward's choices (starting with Call of Duty 4) as detrimental to real competition. This is a pub game, and that's fine. I don't really have a problem with that approach, so long as they don't remove legacy features that make hardcore play possible. Hell, on the console side that might be as simple as adding a stripped playlist, a la MLG. It's not that crazy.

I do believe that Activision's vision has rubbed off on Infinity Ward. I don't actually think we're too close to seeing Call of Duty: Metallica hit the shelves, but I do think the franchise has a pretty lame future. And for the record, I only care because they made some of my favorite games ever. No fan is ever happy to see that. Maybe I make the Metallica jab because as musicians they've already essentially done the same thing. But, alas, there are indeed other (and better) games to be played. I only poked my head back in here to comment on Jin's list of recommendations, which pretty much mirror promodlive.

Except for penetration. I love penetration and so does promodlive.It has more to do with how people react to the criticism that yielded such a response. People get really defensive when it comes to their favorite games. It's a little silly.

Except the MLG playlists in Halo 3 don't strip out all equipment and "silly" weapons. the lolol what was a response to how inaccurate the response was.

As for the Halo 3 banter, Halo 3 has essentially the same configuration as MW1/2: normal modes and "hardcore" modes.

Neither of which are "hardcore" in the sense competitive PC gamers would request (e.g. Counterstrike).

The inspiration for something like promodlive and the MLG rules for Halo come from exactly the same source. It's not that crazy (or funny) of an idea. Hardcore was a miss if that's what they were aiming for.

A lot of people would enjoy it. There's evidence for that in the (continued) success of promod in COD4.

You played 100x more hours, literally, of CoD1-4 than me. I concede that point. But MW2 is a different games. Similar to MW1 but the perks, unlocks and various upgrades like kill streaks work differently.

Put another way, I would find it hard to critique Uncharted 2's gameplay without playing it, even if I played Uncharted 1. When designed change gameplay dynamics, rebalance guns, alter AI, deploy new maps, and change game modes and objectives it is a new experience--better, worse, or just different.

Now, if your comments were only, "I kill streaks, perks, unlocks, and other elements of MW1 distracted me from what was great about the game because I want a hyper-balance game designed *specifically* for (a) fair/competitive PC gaming that focuses first on extreme balance for a level competitive playing field and (b) tweaks that focus on areas that focus only on specific skills, techniques, and tactics approved by this demographic, thus a product tailored for the the needs of the niche competitive PC gaming market" I would go, "Ok, MW1 and MW2 are NOT your game."

But I also think people need to understand calling it newbified, "casual," or unbalanced isn't necessarily accurate -- especially if those comments come from people not playing it -- because what they consider balanced and "good" isn't always what a common person would agree with. e.g. Martyrdom is seen a "BAD" and no/little deviation for jump-flopping (aka dolphin diving) is "GOOD." Martyrdom is "bad" because, while easily avoidable, it penalizes rushing and other techniques deemed "poor" and requiring "no skill" while dolphin diving is "good" because while totally unrealistic (large deviation and fire delay would be much better!) because it does require skill and reflexes that *this segment* wants to emphasize.

I agree that games are not for everyone. The problem is the "criticisms" really are just stealth Halo trolls by some. "Don't like" and "broken" are two different things. I HATE turned based RPGs (they don't cater to a skill set or gameplay I like at all) but that doesn't make them broken, unbalance, or bad. Killstreaks, RPG-lite features, and lethal gunplay aren't bad, broken, or unbalanced. Different. Not for everyone. And as I pointed out to Jin I was able to compose 10 or so items QUICKLY about things wrong with the game other than blanket statements that have to do with tastes compared to another game.They do have a stripped playlist. They have quite a few, even a 3rd person tactical mode and CTF. They just don't have modes for everyone.

Personally I want some Hardcore 3v3 and 4v4 team lists, allow party chat, and mix Domination, Demolition, Sabatoge, CTF, and Headquarters. Call it "Hardcore 4v4 Teamplay." I am tired of TDM. At least crap doesn't SPAWN IN OPEN FIELDS >:(

Btw, I would be more than happy to see a mode that was all stock classes, no perks and no kill streaks. But I don't want to see the entire game go that way. I like variety and different doesn't mean the other stuff is bad, broken, unbalanced, or horrible.Criticism is specific and reason behind it. Tossing in "Halo" as a reason is an issue of preference and not an issue of deficiency.

Likewise a game going a different direction and not catering to every game is bound to make some hypercritical, just as massive success breeds such. And this isn't me saying MW2 is perfect as I think I have noted a LOT of issues, WHY I think they are issues, and why I would like to see them fixed and how.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough:

1) Jin's assessment of the MLG playlist in Halo 3 is wrong. That is why mt_sabao was laughing.

2) My point was that the changes between H3-MP and H3-MLG offer roughly similar number of changes as the MW2 and MW2-Hardcore mode. (I think the latter actually as not only is weapon damage up and standard radar but respawn time is amped up a bit and kill cam is lost as well and you lose almost all your HUD as well as non-ironsight crosshairs).

So the lauding of H3-MLG and dissing of MW2 seems to me not to be the lack of effort from IW but because IW didn't do a Promod (which is so far and above the changes to H3-MLG).

Buy a PC and play promodlive for Call of Duty 4. Why do you think I was so pissed that they took mod support out of MW2.

It's got nothing to do with making it into "game B," Halo's MLG rules were just an example. People have been tweaking FPS rules/balance/gameplay for a lot longer than Halo has been around.

Despite what people seem to think, promodlive is still Call of Duty (and definitely *not* Counter Strike), and a stripped and tweaked playlist wouldn't be Halo. That's lolz.

MW2 will soon be the “standby” game for many people so it is time for me to reflect. This is probably a good time for that with BFBC2’s release and the Halo Reach beta in 2 months (woot!). Even Toy Soldiers is looming to steal some of my meager gaming time from MW2. That that any of this speaks the death of MW2. My friends’ list had 10 people on last night, 6 playing MW2—reports of MW2’s death are exaggerated.

I don’t have a lot of gaming time. Since the MW2 release I have now logged 44hours online. I have had a solid half dozen 3 hour sessions so you can see my gameplay has been outside those sessions a lot of short sessions (25hrs in 3+ months). The beginning was rough (hadn’t played a CoD since CoD4 on the PC, and that was just long enough to top out on rank). I remember being sub 1.0 KDR after my first 2000 Ks. The game places a lot of emphasis on map control so that isn’t surprising. Walmart was slow getting me my copy (about 2 weeks late) so I felt like a fish out of water at first. I also was burning through ammo quickly (I go for a lot of penetration kills so I was running out of ammo with the M4 often). It took me about 10 hours before I was chatting with Scott and remembered the basics: use the perimeter as cover, focus on flanking, keep moving in a circular direction to reduce flanking and being squeezed, don’t venture aimlessly in the center, if in a group let the noobs rushers go ahead to draw fire and reveal their location and then wipe them out as they reload, etc. Just basic stuff like knowing, “Around this corner is some stairs, a hall to the right and a window up front” and then peaking around while looking at the closing points and then gently peaking over the stairs as to use them for basic cover.” In this fashion MW2 is really a “Quake” game in MW clothing—map knowledge is king. The game is brutal (no bullet sponges here). The maps are intricate and detailed with a ton of emphasis on controlling angles. This is the exact opposite of BF (huge map with quasi real architecture). MW2 is an arena style game that is very much a skill game. If you don’t have a serviceable method for shooting in a shooter you won’t be good in MW2. This is another reason I LOVE BF: It is a team game where people of different skill sets and interests can play. My wife is solid in tanks and is great at defense and communication and always a willing medic or engineer—MW2 offers no hope for someone like her. It doesn’t make MW2 a bad game, only that it immediately penalizes people who aren’t good at shooting in shooters. The mechanics (clean, responsive, snappy controls) really reward twitchy skill.

The biggest lament I have about MW2 is that their play lists seem to have de-emphasized team modes. MW1 was slower paced with simpler maps. Maybe since I played with a clan it was different, but I remember domination being all about teamwork. Break into 2 or 3 groups and control points—actually DEFEND them. I see this some in MW2, but the “pubies" don’t seem to get the concept.

Which is too bad because, like Halo, MW2 has a lot of MP options. Yet with no custom game browser you are stuck with IW’s lists. So playing domination with 15 second spawns, no kill cam, with domination gameplay isn’t an option. Not to dismiss the game modes, which are pretty great all around, but while a couple of modes are very team oriented (S&D, Sabotage) the spawn rate and such in Domination just doesn’t seem to reward teamplay well enough.

On the other hand MW2 really is about “reinforcements.” Instead of capping flags and rewarding teams via control points MW2 rewards for kill streaks. In this regards it is totally different from Battlefield; BF rewards teams for working together in obtaining a flag. You get better map control, spawn points, often vehicles, and ticket advantage by controlling flags. In MW2 you still have to nail objectives but the dynamic is focused on the shooting (instead of jack-of-all-trades approach). Good shooters are going to carry their team. Now I have seen many, MANY games won by teams who know how to nail objectives (even seen teams with every member negative in KDR win team modes) but pulling off killstreaks in conjunction with working through objectives is the way to dominate. There are no tanks to repair, players to heal, etc. In this regards those who just cannot shoot are going to be left high and dry unless they can have fun in team modes and feel accomplished doing team objectives while dieing a lot.

The game is pretty insane in terms of unlocks, perks, and killstreaks. They are surprisingly balanced as well. Some comments. First, the default kits are FINE. I am a level 57 and I am using the FAMAS as my primary weapon. My KDR has risen to 1.50 (about 5600:3700) and I it isn’t uncommon for me to go 33-7. I went 26-0 to start a game last night. All the weapons have a role, and all are lethal. It is all about how you use them. New players are not at a weapon disadvantage—they are at a how to use them right disadvantage. Second, if you are constantly killed by air based killstreaks you are “doing it wrong.” Indoors are your friends, most air weapons cannot hit see you if you hug walls (you should do this anyhow) and launchers are surprisingly effective. I don’t get all the whiners. We had one last night—if it bothers you SHOOT IT DOWN. I always carry a launcher as a secondary, not because I need it, but because it helps my team. But it gets on my nerves, “Cheap @#$@# harrier. So lame. So cheap. @#$@#$” Shoot it down maybe? “I don’t have a launcher.” Sheeesh it comes in some of the default kits folks! Further, you have 5 slots and NO secondary weapons as launchers? If they give you fits that is inexcusable. Heck, go cold blooded if it is that bad! So of course I shoot it down for him. He could have changed kits, changed strategies, changed load outs, changed, perks, etc… all to address the issue.

And that is my big problem with the community of complainers and whiners. They don’t even know how to play the game before they kevetch!

I just used the Sentry for the first time ever last night and had fits trying to use it correctly. I still have 13 levels of unlocks and haven’t tried a ton of guns. I haven’t touched shotguns or heavy machine guns. I barely snipe (that was last weekends project… Intervention + FMJ + Stopping power with quick scoping FTW!!!) and while I love how the SMG allow fast iron sights movement I just waste too much ammo. I am sure that as I learn more of the game I will continue to get better.

I know in the last month I have gone from someone who never used Claymores to them being standard in my kit. As I don’t play with friends all the time I need something to protect my flank. It is all about adjusting your gameplay to the game and then loading out to compliment your skills. Basic awareness (e.g. a mostly indoor map: change your Predator Missile to a Sentry) rules. You just flank 3 people and take them out? MOVE to a flanking position to where you were—they will now come to get revenge and you can now take them out again!

MW2 is a really sick game. It isn’t for everyone. The game is very wide and deep. It has a little bit for every shooting fan, although if you are a team-player cycling through TDM and FFA and whining about the lack of teamplay all I can say is FAIL. Get in Domination, HQ, S&D, Sabatoge, Destruction, etc. Find some guys you like, send them Friend Invites, and play together and get good at teamplay. But make no mistake: MW2 isn’t a multi-skilled game. You cannot sit back in a tank, revive friendlies, or the like. Yes, in team lists protecting a control point works, and works well. But you have to do that with shooting. The game is very, very twitchy so less than great shooters will need to learn to use that to their advantage. For example: Go with shotguns and learn the maps to stay CQC. Use Sprint and Knifing perks and dominate CQC.

And that would be the point. Gamers interested in shooters of various styles can change how MW2 plays to accent their skills.

And that is where MW2 shines. It has some of the best core mechanics out there. Period. The perks, unlocks, and streaks are all about customizing your experience. It is RPG-lite with a “stick-and-carrot” approach to progression. Some games offer a hard cap 3 or 4 classes/styles. Others only have “classes” abstracted through what weapon you pick up from in a field (wow, this UberLaser 9000 spawned on a hill?!) MW2 is a competent Arena Shooter with a mix of team and single modes that focuses on allowing players to shape their online personality. Instead of running for the railgun, or success and failure hinging on mastering rocket jumping, or being a cog in a machine, you tailor your soldier to your style and pit it against others. Simple concept, wonderfully executed, fast and furious, sure to tick a lot of people off.

Whereas Battlefield abstracts objectives from personal metrics (die 10 times but took the flag!) MW2 will always be an arena game at heart: those going 26-0 will relish crushing the enemy, the guy 3-19 will be ready to throw his game disk out the window. For those in the later camp: Change your approach, find friends, and play the TEAM LISTS. You will never have fun in TDM / FFA. Change your load outs to help your team (tactical inserts near objectives, claymores, use the UAVs, protect objectives and flanks choke points, etc).

The biggest annoyance with MW2 is the party chat. Horrible IW. The racist foul mouths drive me crazy. In the last 2 weeks I decided to now troll them. Fastest thing to shut up a pukehead is to destroy his team going 35-5 and pointing out for all his talking he couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn. I find they just like to make games miserable for others and have no patience for the game being miserable for them.

Loved SP. Only complaint is no coop—4 player coop would RULE.

Spec Ops is awesome. Needs 4 player as well though + match making.

MP could use “TrueSkill.” It would address MOST of the issues above. Hence people can play with people of their own skill. Very, very sad that this is NOT here. Custom game browser is sadly missing, as are theater tools. Some tweaks where there are more robust team games (slow down the pace, even change scoring to focus on objectives, reward team players more) would help broaden the game and mute some of the complaining.

Maybe I see games different—some definitely aren’t for me. Some great games don’t interest me. I think I liked MW1 better in many ways. But then again I try to decide these things for myself… I have a hard time taking the opinion of folks who rush into a room 3 times in a row … and NEVER toss a stun grenade in. Really? I mean… REALLY? I guess I have been playing shooters competitively since Doom (home network). “This game sucks” usually means, “I suck at this game.”

MW2 is very flexible and robust and caters to a lot of shooting styles. It isn’t for everyone and it takes a solid 10 hours to figure out what parts of MP are for you. The community is rough and I would have liked to see the game develop into other areas quasi-BF. That said it is the smoothest shooter on the consoles (60Hz or so) and is arguably the best arena game next to MW1 and Halo 3. Make no mistake, MW2 is a shooters shooter. You may find success doing niche roles in team modes as a compliment to your shooter pals, but the game isn’t for the weak of heart. Not recommended to those who dislike fast, twitchy games that reward great players with overwhelming force (instead of leveling the playing field). The carrot for the cannon fodder is an infinitely personalized feel to your player.

Hopefully other developers will marry the concept of such deep customization to a game with a more focused teamplay model (my preferred game style). Seeing IW pretty much divorced from CoD is a sad thing as I had hoped they would bring a true challenger to the BF-style format which until BC2 was best represented by Frontlines on the consoles

Holy damn Acert. My Firefox froze.

Got my first Nuke today (25-0 on the outdoor grassy map with the hind). A couple rounds later went 24-0 and the time ended. The guys were total campers on the Mansion map. Campers are like cannon fodder, not sure what problems people have with them. I think people have learned what I ahve been saying: harriers are easy to shoot down. All mine were nailed today asap. And the chopper gunner is worthless on estate.